Why did my lifters suddenly start clattering?

Well, I got the 350 back together last night, after changing out the rod and main bearings in the driveway. :sleep: The journals checked out round, plastigage shows the new bearings well within specs for a new engine. The oil pump end clearance was .003, I swapped to a thinner gasket and got it down to .0018. Packed it with assembly lube, along with all the oil passages I could get to. Went to start it, primed the oil pump until the light went out (oil gauge was stolen recently...), then started it, it fired right off....

And sounded like a coffee can full of washers!!! :rant:

Scared me to death I'd spun a bearing. After investigating with a hose/stethescope, the lower end and block are quiet, but there's a lot of clattering coming from the rockers, both sides of the engine, sounds like several lifters on each bank. As it idled and warmed up (2-3 minutes) the clattering got softer, but never goes away.

Why would new rod/main bearings have ANY effect on lifters???

Wouldn't a lack of oil pressure make the lifters LOUDER as the oil warmed up???

There was no metal at all in the oil pan when I took it apart, and 150,000 miles since the rebuild in '89.

It was running like a dream before I tore into the rear main seal, which led to the bearing swap. WTH??? Ideas??? o No:

btw, when you shut the engine off, it takes about a full minute for the oil light to come back on, which is way longer than before.

 

Haven't even touched the lifters, or anything else on the top of the engine. I pulled the pan, changed out the rear seal, main and rod bearings, reset the oil pump, then buttoned the lower end back up.

To answer; both sides are equally noisy, I've given it some revs, doesn't seem to help any. It's got stock lifters, pushrods, rockers, etc, that WERE nice and quiet, and it ran like a champ. Just leaked like a sieve at the rear main seal... :rant:

I'm getting a gauge this weekend, and plan on pulling the valve covers to see if oil is coming out the pushrod ends, and see what I can see.

Still don't see how new crank bearings would affect the lifters... o No:

 

when I did a quick freshening of my engine I filled the oil pump with vasaline. When I went to start it the lifters clattered for quite a while while running before they got quiet. My guess is the petroleum jelly blocks off oil to the lifters before it dissolves. How long have you had yours running since you did this?

 

Maybe a total of ten minutes, not more. All idling, but for 3-4 quick revs to 1500rpm. Maybe 4-5 starts.

Longest run was about 5 minutes, me with a heater hose listening everywhere I could get to.

Didn't use vaseline, I used the white 105 "Lubriplate" assembly lube.

Hopefully it'll quiet down when I threaten it with some more wrenches...

 

Like larry said........just drive it around. Sometimes a minute piece of dirt finds its way into the lifters, or it could be trapped air. If it doesn't go away after about 50 miles, it's probably dirt which still may find it's way out.

What scared me is that you said it takes a minute for the oil lite to go out.......that problem might not go away.........I'd put a pressure guage on it and make sure the pressure is OK. Could be a bad switch, maybe a clogged oil passage? :bglasses:

 

Dump a small bottle of marvelous mystery oil in it and go for a drive. It should help break the grease up n free up any in a lifter.

Vaseline is the oldest and best trick to use.

 

Any chance after the main seal swap that you forgot to put the sump back in or bent/damaged it???? o No: Also, I saw someone do this on a 300. They put the distributor in far enough for the gear to grab, but it still wasn't in enough to turn the oil pump shaft.

 

I think you using Lubriplate might have done it. It doesnt as readily disolve in oil as does Vasoline. Heck, Vasoline melts in your hand. The lubriplate more than likely partially clogged the sending unit for oil pressure, and the oil supply holes in the lifters, AND the oil filter :jd: NEVER use grease to pack an oil pump, or as an assembly lube. Try this, put a good mech. oil gauge on it, start it, confirm oil pressure, drive it easy to warm up the oil, then change oil and filter, and repeat. Engine oil doesnt get very hot just idling or revving it, the engine has to be "working" under load to warm it up properly. Try this and let us know how it turns out. Mark

 

I did some thinking about your problem.........air in lifters will make them noisy. If you are getting air, it could be b/c of a leak on the pick up side of the oil pump. This would also explain the slow build up of pressure. The other guys are right about what they said, I suggest running it good and hot to eliminate the grease problem first, but if the problem doesn't go away then check that pick up assembly..........maybe you forgot to tighten it? :bglasses:

 

I'm embarrassed...

Well, you guys had it right, the Lubriplate grease was the culprit...had to let the engine get good and warm, then it melted into the oil, and the noise dissapeared!

I've used Libriplate before, but not as much as I did this time, where I went a bit "if a little is good, a lot will be better" crazy. :spank:

Now I know better - Use the Lubriplate ass'y lube for the assembly, but use vaseline for the oil pump!!! And don't go so far overboard with any of the stuff... :spank:

Hey, THANK YOU guys for all your ideas and the moral support!!! Can't say enough good things about this Buick community... :beer :beer :beer

 

I recommend not driving or running the engine until you re-torque the rocker arm shaft bolts. If any are too loose something was not seated properly during the initial installation.

Rotate the engine around as needed checking each rocker arm for looseness. Make sure sure each cylinder is right.

Did you check valve lash? Do you have adjustable pushrods?

 

That's a happy ending..........sure beats the heck out of having to tear it down all over again! :bglasses:

 

Boy, You got THAT right!!! I didn't even want to take off the rocker arm covers, let along tear back into the lower end. Changed the greasy oil out, new filter, and it's :TU: all the way!

She's running very well, verified oil pressure of 20 psi at warm idle, 40psi at 2400 rpm, no lifter noise at all.

Now, I need to identify some plastic bits that were in the oil pan, but that's really an academic exercise for us obsessive types... ou:

Thanks Again All!!! :beer

 

Plastic bits - kind of ivory/white, look like parts of a bicycle sprocket? Stock cam timing gears had a nylon tooth assembly to quiet the chain down. These eventually fall apart.

If you thought that getting the oil pan off was fun, wait until you twist off a 40 year old water pump bolt to get at the timing chain! :laugh:

 

Water pump bolts - already done that one a couple of times, now I'm a FIRM believer in anti-seize!!!

No, black hard plastic, broken-up "rings", about 1 inch diameter, a little bigger than 1/16" thick. Flat sides and top, with a tiny lip around the top. A total of maybe a 1/4 cup full of material, enough for about 15-20 rings(?). The ONLY thing in the pan, even after 150K miles .
I'm thinking maybe something off of the valve stem seals?

Wish I had a camera...have to bum one somewhere and post a pic...

 

I believe you are correct. Sounds like valve stem seals. Have they ever been replaced? I found the same type of debris in mine except most of it was still up in the head and inside the valve springs. If they haven't been replaced, it would be a good idea to do so.

 

Nope, the valve covers haven't been off in years, and the valve stem seals were new in '89...

It's not sucking oil past the valves, at least not enough to see at the tailpipes. I hate the idea of pulling off the rockers, valve spring retainers, etc, just to replace the seals.

I'll get some pictures and post them for positive id before digging into the engine again. :bglasses: