Hi All, I'm looking to buy a car. One of the the things that is making my head hurt is trying to fully understand the "value" factor for certain situations. Here's a few things that I have been thinking about: 1 - Numbers matching; basics like correct engine, trans, body 2 - Factory Original Specs; was it a "true" GS455 Stage 1 4-speed (even it if is not currently numbers matching - it's a hodge-podge of parts changes meaning that it no longer has the correct engine and transmission) 3 - Clone; built up from a Skylark to be something it is not There are other scenarios but these seem to cover the items that I have been thinking about. What else should I consider and why? Also, what's the value of an authentic GSX that no longer has origianl engine /transmission as compared to a Numbers Matching Stage 1 GS? I'm just getting back into the hobby and I'm really wanting to learn from all of you so that I can make an "educated" decision as I continue my search to buy a car. Thanks, Rob
Depends on what you want to do with the car. I was always afraid of beating on my '70 GS455 conv. because it was numbers matching and I didn't want to hurt it. That certainly took some of the fun factor out of owning that car. I think investment wise though, there is no doubt that numbers matching is a plus. Just be prepared to baby the car more. There has been an awful rash of engines blowing up lately, and that would scare me away from "spirited driving". The number one thing I would look for is a solid rust free car, and go from there. My .02 Brian
Hi Rob - welcome back to the hobby! Like Brian says, what do you want the car to do? Are you loking to go to shows? Race, Drive for fun, daily driver, invest? Do you want to stay with Buick? Any answer will depend on all these factors. What I want may not be what you want. :TU: Of course, the other big factor is how much do you want to spend? The realism of buying a numbers matching stage one for $10,000 may be questionable! :eek2: - Bill
The more original the car is (& still in good shape) can push the value up to & beyond blue book. To what degree non-original or mismached numbers affects the value depends more on what the car was & how nice it still is but it definately makes a difference. Examples: If it is a GSX with the wrong tranny it might be worth several grand less but if it is just a bare bones Skylark with a different engine then it probably won't change the value a whole lot. Re-stamps & VIN swaps do happen so you can never be 100% certain if it is original.
The first thought when I buy a car is that I wouldn't mind keeping the car as a part of my menagerie. I believe if you buy what you like and it is in good overall condition (either when you buy it or after you improve it) someone else will also like the car. I enjoy buying this way, otherwise I would be buying Camaros and Cudas all the time.
I re-read your questions and have one suggestion - pick up a copy of Hemmings Muscle Machines. In the back there is a section called auction action. They typically take one auction and discuss several cars and what made or broke their value. Some things things always stand out: is it one of XX? Is it something special like a COPO? Is there documentation? Did someone famous own/drive it? Is it one of the "hot" cars? Then there is the car - how original is it? What condition is it? Did the presentation "pop"? A couple recent cars sales come to mind: the Motion GSX, the "last" Sting Ray, and a 1965 GS conv't at Carlisle. All got top dollar offers because each was special in its own right. The Motion and the corvette for obvious reasons, but take the GS: Nice, 1 of 2100, and restored perfectly with many AACA/BCA awards! Sold for $30K, which for that car was a good price. So each car is different and valued for its own reasons. Check it out. - Bill
It truly does depend upon what you want to get out of the car. As for me, the two most important things are that the car is rust free, (and I mean RUST FREE) and that the car hasn't been hacked. Rust can be so unpredictable once you get into things. A hack job can be equally unpredictable, you might no be seeing everything until you get into it. My old GTO was terribly hacked over the years, it was difficult finding a place to start so much had to be redone. It got much more involved than I had originally anticipated. Which allowed me to much further appreciate my '69 Lesabre that was still factory original, when I got it. It had just over 28,000 on the clock. Whenever something needs to be fixed/maintained there is no guesswork. just my two cents :TU:
Just keep in my that if you buy something that is numbers matching then there is a good chance you will be afraid to drive it. Personally I would want a clone of a GSX that I would not need to fret over. Steve
I think for the money Skylarks cutlass, lemans work for me. They don't cost anywhere near what a gs,442, or gto do and bring just as much enjoyment for me, I like the cars to be as original as can be with nice options like a/c tilt wheel, Manual trans is also a plus but harder to find. I own a 66 sportwagon a/c car with power bench 72 Cutlass S viking blue white top a/c tilt 350-2 nice clean car lots of fun
If you are going to drive them and beat on them get plain janes or clones. If you are a collector, have lots of money or just don't care if you blow up an original drive train, or get scratches, dents and dings, get the real McCoy.
For less than 15K, you should be able to buy a really good lark X-clone that 99% of the population couldn't tell apart from the real thing. You can drive it whenever you want to without hiring an armed guard to watch it, get just as much attention and make it faster than any stock musclecar without worrying about adhering to stringent concours judging rules. Besides if the market falls out for some reason like in the late 70's you're not stuck for near as much dough. All this being said, if I could afford the real thing I most likely would have one and still drive the clone.
Car values are like women, who can figure them out? Drag a car to Scottsdale in January and you come home with enuff money to pay your house off. Take the same car and put in the Auto-Trader locally, and your lucky to get enuff to buy a used Suburban. My 70 Challenger that left the factory with a 318 and now has a 383 in it(and needs restoration) is "worth" more than my 72 GS Stage 1 that has a incorrect block and newer paint!! I guess you need to decide what your gonna do with your car. If you just want to have fun, then find the cleanest, cheapest(clone or real) car you can get your hands on and have fun. If you have the money for the real thing, then go for it. I stumbled across mine 2 years ago & wasnt looking for a car. There still out there. The best advice I could give, build what you like, dont follow trend's. And most of all, "DRIVE-IT!!" :beer
I like the real thing and got the real thing. I love my GSX, took me 14 years to get one. Was always a day late and a dollar short( more like $10,000.) every time a good one came along. Then December 23, 2004 a big snow storm came and dumped 26 inches of wet heavy snow. Three buildings collasped on farm, cost me way more to rebuild than insurance money I collected. My GSX money gone, sold timber, all that money went to rebuild. Found my GSX late in 2005, with muscle car prices going up I thought if I don't do it now I will never get one. Went to the bank and got a large loan. January 24, 2006 I hauled it home. It's a #'s matching car and I put over 800 miles on it in less than a year. No toys(tractors, equipment) for the farm till the loan is paid off. Get what you want, hope you get yours quicker than I did. Pat
