I posted this in the brakes section but i have no idea where it actually goes.. I had my 65 riv towed to a mechanic shop to have brakes put on. I would have attempted the job myself but could not get the rear drums off so I ordered a new spring kit, wheel cylinders, and brakes from Cars.inc and delivered them to the shop with the car. When completed I had the car towed back home and the driver side wheel would not move. The driver had to tilt the lift several times to "slide" the car off the bed. I wasn't at the shop for pickup and found out about this issue when the driver arrived with the car. When I went to the shop to ask what the issue was he said he didn't know but it wasn't the brakes. He said they would check it out but Im not towing the car back up there so I need any help available. I know nothing about brakes and do not know where to start. The car rolled freely when I brought it home on a trailer, and even moved under its own power before the trip to the mechanic shop. While on jack stands it would creep forward and reverse. BUT... now that I think about it i think it did slowly come to a stop and would not move even with a little tap of the pedal. I thought this would be fixed with a cylinder and brake change but i was obviously wrong.
Unethical mech shop.... if the car would roll free before the repair, it should after the repair,,, sounds like the tech adjusted the brakes up too tight or the emer b rake is on.... inless they got the car out and hot rodded it and tore something up... like walmart did with my 4x4.....either way it is the shops responsibility to ck it out and correct the problem....
Thank you for your replies... I would love to blame the shop for a free fix, but trying to be honest, I really believe it just stopped turning on it own before shop redo. When I was attempting to do the brakes my self the car was on jack stands. I did put it in drive and reverse while the car was up (the rear driver wheel was off [this is also the problem wheel]). If i remember correctly the creep in drive slowly came to a stop while in the air like it binded up or something. This car did sit untouched for years in a garage and I'm in the process of changing everything bad starting with the brakes. The original owner did move the car about 6 years ago and said he used the emergency brake to keep from going through his garage wall since the brakes weren't working then either. he said it barely stopped the car... Would disconnecting the e-brake make a difference? Could the rear need new oils? Any help is appreciated with where to start looking... Bad weather is coming and I really need to get this car in the garage out of the elements.. Thanks again
The details of all this seem a little vauge to me, and perhaps to others which may be why you haven't gotten many responses. I can't think of anything that would cause just one wheel to lock up on the rearend unless it's brakes. Yes, a parking brake cable could very easily be the culprit if it has been sitting so many years with the parking brake applied. Does the cable move at all? Put a little mark or a piece of tape on the parking brake cable when the brake is applied, then release the brake and see if it moves. If it is the parking brake, put a vice grips on the end of that cable and tap the vice grips with a hammer. You won't have to move it very far to get the wheel free enough to move the car inside. Have you tried loosening the adjuster? There should be a slot on the backing plate towards the bottom. It may have a rubber plug over the slot that pops right out. There is a tool for this but you might be able to bend an old screwdriver to get it in there. Turning it one way tightens it and, of course, turning it the other way will loosen it, although the possibility exists that the adjuster is rusted and frozen as well. Also, if the shoes are stuck to the drums, hitting the drum around the perimeter with a lead hammer will usually help with that. Bill
When we do a brake job at my shop, we always check the parking brake function, after all, they are an integral part of the rear brakes. They should have at least called you to tell you there was a problem. Or the tow truck driver set the parking brake too far down and a cable is siezed.
Any details anyone needs I'll be happy to provide... Im giving all the information I have at this point. I really wish I was paying more attention to the smaller details. I'm going to look into the parking brake soon as I get home. I have a shop manual so i guess I'll have to study what I can about this issue. Hate to ask dumb noobie questions but could the trans have gotten out of alignment? and its in Drive or something when the shifter says neutral? I spoke with the mechanic just a moment ago to ask about the parking brake and he said it was free and he rotated the drums when he put the brakes on. I have used him before for other jobs with other cars so he said he would come by the house to check it out, but he's unreliable in that way cause he is very busy. I would like to at least get a jump on the issue for no surprises. Thanks
Here's another thought, but again, you didn't mention just how much work was done on the brakes. Sometimes when the hoses get old they will collapse on the inside. You can apply the brakes and they will work because there is pressure in the system, but if the hose collapses on the inside it will not allow the pressure to release. I've had this happen. In your case it would be a rear hose and that feeds both sides so technically it should affect both wheels, but stranger things have happened. Try loosening the bleeder screw and see if it will release the pressure. If it does, replace the hose. Actually, if the brakes are that old you should replace all your hoses. Bill
Here is what I would do based on what you have stated. Raise front of car and see if both wheels rotate freely. Then raise the rear of car with both wheels off the ground and tranny in neutral and see if both wheel turn freely. I know you suspect the rear driver side wheel but this will verify 100% which wheel or wheels need attention. Once you 100% verify the culprit wheel, remove it and then try to remove the brake drum. Be sure to have the vehicle properly supported on jackstands or other stable support. The drum should come off with a few light taps and/or by rotating and pulling at the same time. If its a front wheel the bearing nut will need removed first. If the brake drum will not come off, you will need to back the self adjuster off manually to allow the brake shoes to collapse inward away from the drum. Remove the oval/rectangular rubber plug in the lower back of the brake backing plate for access. Explaining how to back this off to someone who has never did it is difficult without pictures. The shop manual should explain with more detail how to do it. I normally take a couple regular flat blade screwdrivers preferrably one of them having a long shaft and press in on the adjusting lever behind the adjuster to free the adjuster. Then use the other screwdriver to rotate the adjuster by engaging the blade in the toothed wheel and using a prying fashion against the side of the hole to rotate. If you get a light and look into the hole you can see what I'm talking about. If after a few turns the drum does not free up or seems to be getting tighter, rotate the adjuster in the opposite direction. This should free up the drum enough to get it off. If not, something is really screwed up inside the drum. Even though I have little faith in many shops, As hard as it is I try not to blame them until the root cause is found. I have to admit, there isn't much that causes a wheel to drag or be tight other than brakes not functioning properly. One other possibility is: Though rare, I have seen collapsed rubber flex hoses that allowed the brakes to be applied due to increased pressure from the pedal, but then not allow them to relax when the pedal is released due to not allowing fluid to travel back towards the master cylinder in the opposite direction. The springs on the shoes apply force to the wheel cylinder pistons which force the fluid back to the master cylinder when the brake pedal is released. This force is not nearly as much as is applied by depressing the brake pedal.
Ok today I jacked the front up and the wheels spun with no problem. I jacked up the rear put the jack stands under and attempted to and they would not budge. I removed the driver rear wheel to take a look at things and the drum came off with ease... unlike when I first attempted the change myself. Everything looked good and new to me so I put the drum back on and attempted to turn the wheel and it turned. I turned it a full revolution. I put the wheel back on tightened the lugs and it wouldn't budge again. I did the same on the other side paying closer attention to details this time around. When the passenger rear wheel was off I could turn this drum also. This trime i put the wheel on with no lugs and it turned. I added a lug after each turn but didn't tighten them. It seems as once the lugs are tightened it wouldn't turn any longer... Any ideas???
Take a look at the width/ edges of the brake shoes,,,, I suspect that the wrong brake shoe width was installed.... then when you tighten up the lugs it causes the brake shoes to be wedged between the brake drum and the backing plates.... there are different widths of brake shoes,,, and or the shoes are foreign made and not to specs....
Doc's right, they probably put the wrong shoes in it. And to not notice that and return the car to you like that o No: I would stay as far away from those guys as is humanly possible from now on. What a bunch of idiots :blast: Bill
After reading thru all the statements in this thread,,, I say go back to the basics and one item at a time check them out...Bill is right, and the other guys are right, and that said,,, there is some other possibilities,,,, a pinion/ carrier bearing may have cammed or a wheel/axel bearing,,, you really need to know what was going on with the rear end assembly when the car was parked .... With my riv there was water inside the diff housing that destroyed all those bearings plus the ring gear/pinion.... time to do some serious checking stuff out...first ck out the amount and condition of the lube inside the diff housing,,, look for milky oil or no oil, loose bearings ect, Then when the mechanics of the diff are known to be good,,, go to the brake system,,, ect... and by all means ck out the wheel cyls and the brake lines... replace all the rubber lines...if they are stiff and cracked...ck out the vent to the diff, if it is lost it will let water get into the diff, ditto the gaskets in the housing and the rear axel seals... water inside the housing = severe damage...
Ok so this means that the wrong stuff was sent from CARS inc.? if the brakes are in fact the wrong width/size? Thanks for the ideas of what to look for and where to start also cause im way out of my league here gentlemen.
Unfortunately I think the shop may have disposed of the brakes although i will call and tell them what you guys mentioned it might be... This just got scary for me.... I thought I should mention before I had the car towed to the shop, and before I even started messing with the brakes, I had the rear raised to see if I had a posi rear. I turned rear driver wheel and the other turned in the same direction. Yesterday when the wheel was off and I turned the drum while performing the checks someone suggested, the other didn't budge (its lugs were fully tightened also[in relation to the issue above]) So I don't know if this means anything in relation to the rear but I just thought i would mention everything I noticed. Im thinking IF it is a posi, then the drivers drum (whether it had a wheel on it or not) shouldn't turn in neutral if the passengers is locked tight right? Which leads me to believe IF the wrong shoes are on there it would explain why the car rolled on to the bed fine when leaving and came back with this issue. I really hope its as simple as new shoes; and if it is where do you get correct ones from? I ordered from the all buick place oldbuickparts.com (Cars inc.) because they specialized in this stuff. Hell i could of just ordered from autozone if thats was the case. Thanks again Jamiel
The wheels turning the same direction doesn't really mean anything. One of the easiest ways to tell if you have a posi is to lock one of the wheels and try to turn the other. If you can turn the opposite wheel it's not posi. Either that or the posi is toast, but even then it should have at least a little resistance. You should measure the inside surface of your drums where the shoes ride and then measure the width of your shoes. If it differs you probably have the wrong shoes. Also measure the diameter of the inside of the drum. Write these measurements down. Example: 11"x 2 1/4". If you can get the old ones, great, but you should be able to get the correct brake shoes at almost any parts store, and if they don't have them in stock they can probably get them the next day for you. I use Carquest. They may have offered two different size brakes for your car which is why you should know what you have when you go to the store. Bill
Check the width of the drums too, It could be possible that someone substituted the wrong drums on that car. Unlikely, but possible. If the drums are binding up in the shoes you should see some scratches on both the drum and the new shoes. Here's another hypothetical situation; - that shop installed the shoes, but left the adjusters fully backed off, meaning the shoes were allowed to ride up on the backing plate. I've seen it that some shoes when assembled by an idiot are too loose they actually ride up and bind tight. Check and see that the shoes are in their proper groove. Some clowns back the star adjuster right off in order to clear the rust ring on an old drum, and then can't or don't set it up afterwards. Also an improperly installed emergency brake cable plate or emergency brake actuator rod will cause problems. Here again, if it was improperly installed it will bind up or cause the shoes to sit higher off the backing plate than necessary. Check the two little springs that hold the shoes to the backing plate, if they're not perpendicular to the shoe then there's an alignment problem with the shoes. Also check the two larger springs; - if they were installed backwards they may stick up past the shoes into the drum area. If they used the wrong holes to line up the springs, this would cause enough of a problem in lining up a drum. Best thing to do is get a good picture of what the brake was supposed to look like, and compare yours to it. From the sounds of things, that shop really didn't know what they were doing, and just kind of "winged it". They probably pulled both sides apart and then forgot how it all went back together. But it's probably a simple problem, so don't go ripping apart the rear end yet until you've checked out all the possible problems with the shoes.
I am hoping this a simple fix. ray: Napa does list 2 different brakes sizes. 12"x2.25 and 12"x2 for starters. I mentioned this to cars and they said they only have one listed.. go figure. I don't know if .25" is a big difference but i can always stand to learn something new. I am very grateful to everyone for lending your knowledge Thank you.
