71 455 stage 1, bored 30 over with forged pistons & total seal rings. Rods were polished, resized & reconditioned. TA 310 hy cam(degreed at 105i), shorty headers, roller rockers, alum pulleys, HEI by Dave, factory stage 1 Q-jet & settings. Performer intake & port matched, steel heads have mild intake porting and have been resurfaced & unshrouded valves, block line honed and oil mods made, yet NOT decked . Deep steel oil pan from Steve R. I think compression is around 9:1. That should be enough info.o No: One more thing, we are worried about hooking it up to the dyno because they (or I) don't have a Buick pressure plate (I only have a flexplate).:ball: Anyone in the Cincinnati area have one I can borrow???o No: The short block is obviously completed, but they ordered the wrong diameter valve seals.ou: So it will not get completed until Mon or Tues..... Thanks, Dan
Yes Jim, I have the TA shortys Nobody around has a spare set of full headers for the Buick. Carry sold his MT's, and I don't want to buy full headers because of the "bottoming out problems with 14" rims.:Brow: I kinda doubt 450hp, (at least I hope not)! I don't have the halo or girdle. Now that I think about it, the stage pump would be exceeding its capabilities around there.o No:
Dan, you can make over 600 hp without those items it has been done with good success (well maybe not with 9 to 1s ) but it has been done. (I had a 464 that was ran for 6 years in the low 11s and a couple high 10s and made 630 hp at the flywheel and was without girdle or halo)
Thanks, Mike I had no idea I could get that much. I don't expect to rev it too high with the factory rods though. What should be my (safe) max rpm on the dyno?o No:
Dan, Motor will prolly peak at around 5200-5400. Maybe even sooner, not sure how that cam and compression are gonna interface. Safe to 6000, as long as everything is "right". Expect 400-430 HP, maybe a touch more, but I think having the pistons down in the hole is gonna hurt you. I imagine they are about .040 down. Was the block square?.. I have yet to see one that is not .008-.010 off, side to side. Also a little light on the compression for that cam, and straight pattern with cleaned up heads might not be the way I would have went. Would have been a good candidate for a cam in the high 220* intake duration figures, to build more cylinder pressure with the lower static compression ratio. That would have helped torque. Tigher lobe center of that cam will help.. 110* if I recall correctly. Don't mean to be critical, just offering an opinion. Let us know how it goes. And don't worry about the flywheel, you won't need it. I dyno 500-550 HP motors with the stock flexplate, and up to 800 HP ones with an SFI fexplate. In back to back tests, TA's shorties are about 8 numbers off the long headers. HP and Torque, in averages and peaks. If it had long headers I would have guessed 410-450 HP. Prolly around 425ish.. I expect torque to be down a bit.. should be interesting. JW
Re: Thanks, Mike BBB stock rods are forged, and with APR bolts you can go to 6000, polish he beams and have them shottpeened and there good for 6500-6800. there are a ton of BBB out there running 450-500+ h/p with no beef ups to the block.
Thanks guys Jim, we lost the cam card so I called Dave at TA. He told me to degree at 106(we finally hit 105 and called it quits). The forged pistons were .050 in the hole, dish type (I think with 2365 on them, or something like that). I am guessing at 9:1 Kelly, I polished the rods and have arp bolts, but did not heat treat them. Here is the BIG question. Is it absolutely necessary to break her in with the outside springs only??? They are really trying to talk me out of that, and said it is a B!$*# to change them back on the block. Plus, he has NEVER had a cam break in properly, or flatten a lobe.o No: My answer was easy, most of what they do involve roller cams & lifters!
Dan- If you know how far your slugs are in the hole, you should have definatly calculated your compression ratio. Guessing your compression ratio makes it all but impossible to logically select a cam. :Smarty: :beer
Breaking it in with the outside springs has more to do with the cam bearings, than it does with the cam/lifters. If everything is perfect, and you have the typical 125# on the seat and 280-300 or so open, don't have any high tip heights, and pre-lube the motor, and it starts instantly, then you prolly will be ok. If not, the first thing that lets go is the cam bearings, typically. TA sells a tool that makes it much easier to change the springs on the engine. I don't even use the new outer spring of the dual spring setup. I use a set of outers that I ran for several seasons on a race motor. They are real light, and we don't dare rev the motor beyond 3000 rpm with them. I would tell them that if they want to skip a Buick BB specific proceedure, that they will also have to take it apart completely, clean all the failed cam bearings out of it, and rebuild it.. For free.. JW
Not to start any kind of battle here, while I have no problem with doing the cam break in with outer only springs, I will say that I myself have never done it that way and have never had a problem with cam bearing failure or cam lobe wear . The motors are always preprimed and fire right up. All the Buicks I do either have grooved cam bearings in them, or the cam journal is grooved and the cam bearings are reclocked to aprox the 4 o'clock position. I've had quite a few engines that we either did cam changes on on the dyno or cam changes in after several years of running and have not had any problems with cam bearings. Now I have not done an engine with stock bearings in stock oiling locations in over probably 25 years, that's one we lost cam bearings in right away, and after talking to Scotty Guadagno way back when, that's when I started grooving the cam journals, as per his advice, grooved bearings were not available back then. I have never lost a cam bearing on any solid lifter cammmed motor either, and these things have had some pretty hefty spring pressures on them. So in closing ,, I would say that using the outer springs only is not a BB Buick specific proceedure that is carved in stone. just my opinion. Jim Burek P.A.E. ENTERPRISES
Ok, now I am worried. I just stuck a new cam (ta413) in my old engine and installed a rebuilt set of heads with dual valve springs. Are you saying that I might damage my cam bearings when I start it? I have not fired it up yet because I never got all the work done this weekend. Tell me. Thankso No:
John, No, if you have a good set of used cam bearings in the motor, then you should have no problems. JB.. To each his own.. I have only ever lost one set in a new motor, many years ago. But I do know that AMP, and TA both perform similar proccedures to what I described. I am generally not looking for shortcuts in engine building. JW
Thanks for the update. I am just trying to add spunk to my engine without spending big $$$$$$$$$. I will use future money on a well built 455 that is currently on the stand. But for now, I just wanted more HP and an easy way to do it. Would hate to damage some of my $1800 worth of parts due to lack of experience. Great place to learn.
Great another problem to worry about,Im not using duel spring,but Stage 1 from poston w/110 Lbs seat pressure What is the break in procedure for these?
Thanks for all the advice, MUCH appreciated! I do have coated dual groove cam bearings, and the new HD rod & crank bearings, and everything is well lubed. I spun the cam myself, and it was very free and straight, not tight at all. I have also spun several other cams in engines for the Cobra's they build, and I must say mine was the best( they also mentioned it)! That being said, I'll take a look at the TA tool, wish I'd have known that sooner.:3gears: :TU:
