Tubular Front control arm kits problems ?

Last year I picked up a tubular kit on e-bay , I tried installing it in my 69 Gran Sport and was not able to bolt up to the upper control arm. I was 3 inces short.Last week I pick up a MBN tubular Front control arm kit from ground up. Im having the same problem has anyone encountered this problem I just tried installing the upper one this time.

 

I just installed a set of upper and lower tubulars from TRZ and they fit perfect. They are a bit pricy but the quality is bar none.

 

I will check out TRZ ?
I picked this kit up from Ground up a Chevelle distributor. They stated it would be a correct fit? I noticed the upper control arm was shorter? the arch of the arm. I didn't bother to go any further installing the lower control arm. I was wondering if I need to install both for it to work? When I called them they told me there just a distributor they have no support? Did you notice a difference after installing the kit?
I running 17 inch rims is it worth spending money?

 

What are you trying to accomplish? If you are using them on the street, you may want to check with each manufacturer to see if they recommend that. The stock ones are actually stronger.

I had a 1000HP+ Camaro in my shop last week for a wheel alignment after a tub job and ladder bars in the back, rack and pinion, TRZ Pro upper and lowers in the front, coil overs all the way around, etc. and it was a bit of a PIA to square the rear and align the front. TRZ may be a little optimistic with their 5-7 degrees positive caster and zero camber with their arms, and getting what I did (4 pos and .05 pos camber) took a lot of work. Those Heim ends are not fun at all and very time consuming to adjust, as well as causing other problems during the alignment.

 

We had no issues achieving their recommended adjustments for the alignment, although I will say you may want to check with them about extended street use with them if that is your intention. They told me I would have no issues with the "limited" street use that I drive. I've heard from ALOT of people that had issues with either fitment and alignment issues with the cheaper eBay ones and such.

 

What are your caster and camber specs? Did you use shims or the Heim ends for caster/camber, or both? Was the alignment done "old school" or on a rack?

 

I Put 17inch wheels my car last year .I had aligned on a rack the I was told that he removed an excessive amount of shims from the control arms. I'm looking to drive the car on the street .I was told the way to go was to lower the car and go with new style tubular control arms for handling? And the new control arms will correct issues with old style geometry? I uncertain weather this is true? I rebuilt my control arms about 4 summers past. The ball joints are still good as well as the control arm shaft bushings. Its hard to find some one that can do a good alignment .I have front and rear sway bars ,boxed rear control arms,and I just installed KYB Gas adjust Shocks all around. What's the best thing to do at this point? What's the best way to find someone good that can align my car correctly?

 

I think you may get better advice in the Pro Touring section regarding handling. What I have found on these old cars, as well as everyone else who aligns them and drive one, is that for the best feel on the road at highway speeds, you will want as much positive caster as you can get. It's not uncommon to be able to get 2 degrees with the stock arms and cross shafts. Do you have your alignment specs? Usually you will end up with very few shims in the front bolt and many in the rear bolts for the best driving IMO? Handling, again, you may want to try the Pro Touring forum. It won't be cheap, but nothing good ever is.

 

its hard to read its faded
cross camber actual -0.1 before 0.5
cross caster actual -0.1 before -0.5
total toe actual 0.29 before0.83
there's more the top is faded
And there shims n the upper control arms.

Left Right
Camber 0.5 before -0.1 camber actual 0.6 before -0.6
caster-0.3 before-0.4 caster actual -0.2 before 0.2
toe 014 before0.49 actual 0.14 before 0.34
actual 0.14 before 049 toe

 

Wish we could have talked before you bought the arms. If you were looking for handling performance (street or course, talking about drag racing here) then I would have told you to go with the SPC adjustable upper control arms with tall upper ball joints. These arms actually fix the camber curve issues these cars have from the factory. They are super easy to adjust and align and do away with the crummy alignment shims.

Most likely the ebay arms you bought promised a lot, but are just geometric copies of stock arms, complete with terrible geometry. Tubular arms by themselves don't really do much if they copy the stock arm angles!

The next step after proper upper arms would be a set of quality lowers, which will allow even more caster than stock.

 

I called the place that I bought the kit from they stated I could return the kit to them.
is it worth going this route opposed staying stock?
what SPC parts would I need to purchase?

 

What kind of ball joints do you advise?
just leave the lower control arms stock?

 

The SPC arms are great for a lowered car with tall spindles and are greatly adjustable. However, I beg to differ on the SPC arms if you are going to drive your car on the street at mostly stock ride height. The SPC arms have no rebound bumpers, require trimming the upper A-arm mount to fit and require the tall spindles or at least a dropped front end to work even close to desired. I had them for a few years and every time I jacked the front end up I cringed because the arms were resting on the frame, metal to metal. For a mostly stock front end, there are better options.

I'm not sure what you used that won't line up but I bought some inexpensive tubular uppers for my 71 GS 350 that look identical to the uppers I replaced the SPC arms with on my 70 Stage 1 a few years ago. They have a noticeable setback on the upper ball joint and the +5 caster they claim looks easy to do. I also did the tall Proforged upper ball joints and it came out great for cheap. I easily got +5 caster, -1 camber and toe of whatever you want since that is tie rods. I have about 1/2" shim pack in back and about 1/4" up front.

Did you by chance order upper control arms for a tall spindle swap? That is where you take a B body spindle and use special ball joints to mount them on the A body cars. They require a nearly flat upper control arm. Mine are noticeably arched like a factory one.

Here's what I put on my cars, notice the arch: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tubular-Per...ODY-/261295074230?hash=item3cd6666bb6&vxp=mtr

These are for the tall spindle swap, notice how flat: http://www.amazon.com/Hotchkis-1103...eywords=tubular+upper+control+arm+68+chevelle

These are the tall ball joints from Proforged, very sturdy, very good piece: http://www.jegs.com/i/Proforged/469/101-10016/10002/-1?parentProductId=2001760

New Arms with tall Proforged upper ball joints

Tall Proforged upper ball joints

New arm laying on old arm, note how far back the hole is, making the extra +5 caster

The 1" piece of my upper control arm mount I had to cut out to be able to even get the SPC arms on, even then my + caster was limited unless I wanted to trim more

SPC adjustable arms, those spacers had to go between the arm and the top of the ball joint to get any kind of clearance

This was my first attempt without spacers and even with Howe tall ball joints, it wouldn't clear the frame at ride height without the spacers in the previous pic

 

The first pic shows with the jack underneath compressing the lower control arm all the way up.
2nd pic shows the difference in height from one to the other? note I just tried installing the top control arm without the lower control arm .
this was a complete kit from MBM I bought from ground up for a chevelle. It looks close to the latest control arms in your pics.I will need 5 inches to be able to put the ball joint in the spindle with suspension jacked all the way up?

 

I suspect you have no motor in the car because you have a lot of air between the lower control arm bumper and the place it will hit the frame plus there are a lot of coils showing and they are far apart. A typical A-body front end fully compressed will have the lower control arm nearly horizontal. I know mine is at stock ride height.

Did you remove the frame bumper for the upper control arm so that it doesn't hit the new one that has it built into the arm?

 

First i will correct a typo of mine, which was to say that I am not talking about drag racing performance, but handling the curves.

Second, I am not sure I understand the problems you had with your SPC arms knucklebusted. Yes, you have to trim the control arm mount, but it is a non-issue, unless you are worried about having a concourse frame.

I was also worried about the rebound bumper, but if you talk to the protour guys who actaully put these parts through the paces they will also say it is a non issue. I reckon you would rarely rebound the suspension hasrshly on the street with regularity. I have yet to bottom out my suspension and our roads here are really bad, and the speed bumps are things or legend.

Really these arms are great for any ride height. You can get the correct angle balljoint plate for your application. The most common setup is with 1 to 2 inches of drop and the Howe tall balljoints. You do not need tall spindles, but they are an option, that's what the tall joints help with.

These parts all work together. You cant slap random parts on and expect a g machine as the result. Dropping your car with proper performance springs does a lot for your handling, including lowering center of gravity and rolling moment, as well as affecting suspension geometry. The new arms allow more caster and camber adjustment, and the SPC arms actaully correct the chamber delta when the suspension cycles such as in a turn. The tall lower balljoints drop the car further but also fix some steering linkage alignments issues that contribute to bumpsteer. SPC lower arms allow you to adjust the ride height with both coil overs and standard coils, and also give you more caster. It is all interconnected.

It is really hard to tell what is going on without being there. Are you sure you ordered the right arms? Do you have aftermarket springs or spindles? Did you index the spring incorrectly in the pocket so that it is either unable to compress fully or is binding in the pocket?

My recommendation is to call Mark ar scandc.com. The guy literally wrote the book on muscle car performance geometry. He will talk to you for hours if need be to get you what you are trying to achieve. His book is called how to make your muscle car handle. Google it.

 

If 69 GS Ragtop had SPC arms in the situation he's in now, his problems would be 10 times worse!

I'm not here to hijack the thread but I had the SPC arms and they were less than satisfactory for a factory style ride height. You call them non-issues but I couldn't get all the caster I wanted without hitting the control arm mount point, as illustrated in the pic I posted, which was not at full drop but at full frame contact. I had reduced suspension travel with the SPC arms, tall ball joints and spacers. Without tall ball joints and the spacers under the arm and above the ball joint with four spindly little bolts between me and certain death, I wasn't comfortable with the situation. You think putting the control arm he has now on the car is difficult, it would be impossible with the SPC arm as it is 2 dimensional, no drop at all to it. It will be 2 more inches away from fitting in this situation.

And I did talk to Mark for quite a while before I bought them 10 years ago. They just aren't right for every situation. I am not a drag racer though I have been down the track many times. I love to go around corners fast and have had a T/A sway bar, rear sway bar, urethane bushings and 60 series tires all the way around since I bought my car in 1980. This was at a time when my contemporaries were putting 5" wheels with volkswagen tires on the front and jacked up 10" wheels with N50s on the back.

The issues I've pointed out are legion on the internet if you look for Chevelles with SPC arm problems.

 

it seems the new upper control arm is much sorter in the arch than the originals? perhaps I need to purchase the longer ball joints? is I worth doing this? will it lower my ride height? I only tried installing the uppers. With this kit do I need install both upper and lower? I was under the impression this kit would bolt in and correct the geometry. When I installed the upper control arm I was 4 inches too short from getting the ball joint into the spindle, with the floor jack lifting the car off the jack stand, from the lower control am. This is the 2nd kit from 2 separate vendors?I put disc brakes in a few years ago the kit came with 7 inch tall spindles? Is that a stock height? I did not try taking off the bumper. Greg on the new control arm did you have to install the taller ball joints? How much travel did you have once they where installed? did you loose any?

 

First, please confirm this car has an engine in it. It looks awfully light from your picture.

Second, please confirm you have removed the factory upper frame bumper. The new tubular has a bumper on it and the frame one has to go.

Your second pic is very dark but the first pic looks like a stock type spindle. You should be able to do an upper without doing a lower. I did the full set, upper/lower/springs/shocks/quick steering on my 70 Stage but only the uppers on my 71 350 with a factory disc swap. The lowers are generally no advantage to weight or geometry though mine have the solid, greasable bushings instead of rubber for less deflection.

I had no issues putting the tubular uppers pictured (other than getting the old ones off) on my 71 350 car with everything else stock.

As for the longer ball joints, uppers will not lower ride height, lowers will drop it about 1/2". Longer balls joints effectively lengthen the spindle since the pivot points are farther apart. This produces a more favorable camber gain in turns.

Here's a factory and aftermarket front end. Notice they are both at full droop on a lift and how the tie rods are pointing way down. At ride height the tie rods should be horizontal or nearly so. This looks very similar to your picture, which is why I asked if the car is full weight with a motor pushing the lower control arm up. I would put the jack right under the spring pocket and jack it up until it just lifts off the jack stand.

 

Hi Yes the car has a 455 in it as we speak. when I installed the upper control arm I removed the lower factory bumper located on the fame. I did leave the upper control arm bumper on it. What brand as the control arms you installed ?