TSP Level 2A-R Prototype Specs and testing (Larry's motor)

Discussion in 'Street/strip 400/430/455' started by Jim Weise, Jan 22, 2011.

  1. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    I e mailed AED. I'll post their response. My fellow NE clubmember, Bob Christo has the same carburetor, same issue. Other than that, it ran flawlessly for me. Did you have to re jet it any Jim?
     
  2. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    Yardley had the same issue

    ... and I TOLD YOU to send your Q-jet out to J.Dub for dyno testing. You're starting to listen just like Mocha at the park :bla:
     
  3. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    :laugh: :laugh: She doesn't listen to you either. :moonu:
     
  4. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    E mailed John Dickey, owner of AED Performance.

    Hi John,
    I've had one of your 1000HO carbs on my 455 Buick engine for about 4 years now. I get great performance and decent gas mileage out of it. In short, I'm really pleased with it. There is one thing though. I've always found that the engine wants to stall when I brake moderately. I have to keep my foot on the gas as I come to a complete stop, otherwise, it will stall. One of my other Buick friends with the same carburetor noticed this also. I've tried adjusting the float levels, but it persists. Other than that, the carb runs flawlessly. Any fix for this?





    This was his reply.

    Hi Larry:

    You are absolutely right about this problem. Here’s what’s going on. When you get on the brakes g-forcs is actually pushing fuel through the rear main jets up the main well in the metering blocks then through the boosters. Since the throttle is closed it’s actually flooding the carburetor a bit, or richening up the mixture at idle under the braking conditions. It’s much more of a problem with larger carburetors because of the bigger jet area letting more fuel through. Holley actually makes a metering block they used on 850’s years ago (maybe they still do) that has a 90 degreee cross well that makes it harder to pull fuel through. It works ok, but it kills performance, by a tenth or more, since it’s harder to pull fuel. Another option is using a rear power valve Larry so you can reduce the rear main jets. This will help but if you see a fair amount of g-force on launch you can have a lean spot as the power valve becomes uncovered by fuel. So a bit of a catch 22. Since most of our 850’s & 1000’s are used for pro-street/ bracket applications we take the safe route. If you don’t use slicks on your car, & have a good fuel pump, & you want to make this better you can install a rear power valve & jet down the secondaries about 8 jet sizes. This will help. Also a little higher idle speed & a little lower rear float setting. Hope this helps Larry. Let me know if you have any questions. Your new engine sounds pretty impressive!!!



    Take Care



    John Dickey

    AED Performance

    2530 Willis Rd.

    Richmond, VA 23237

    804-271-9107 Ext:11

    jd@aedperformance.com

    www.aedperformance.com
     
  5. gmcgruther

    gmcgruther Well-Known Member

    I still like to know why you havn't tried a Pro Systems SV1 and a Wilson manifold 4 hole spacer or any spacer they recommend?
     
  6. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Ya, on this combo it was way off.. we just went right after the high speed air bleeds, increased them from 26's to 30's, and that brought it in the range.


    I suppose since the new cam is on the way to me, we can let the cat out of the bag.. This motor is going back on the dyno, Larry was nice enough to let me continue to use it as a development piece. The new cam is a roller version of the 290H, straight pattern at 238/238, with a slightly tighter 112 lobe center.

    Besides evaluating another cam against what was done previously, I wanted some more time to do some fine carb tuning, and play with the timing a little more, like I would normally do on a customer's motor, but since we were doing 3 cams the first time, we had to get it into a working range, and then do the cam only swaps.

    If this motor follows previous trends with the flat tappet stuff, the extra intake duration and slightly tighter lobe center will improve performance, and the less overall duration should improve low speed idle quality. I have to get the new cam in the motor and measure it to know the exact differences, but as usual, I will report the differences, and we can evaluate and report on yet another new Hyd roller profile.

    And since you brought this carb issue up, I can do some checking on a rear metering block, maybe go right to what Holley is using on the 1000 HP now, and test it back to back with your AED one, to evaluate performance, and see if we can solve this problem with your carb. Even with drag radials, and the more street oriented VP converter I don't think we are going to get away with a rear power valve.

    I will also take Ron's box stock 08513-1 Holley 1000 HP off the shelf, and test it against your AED carb, to see if there is any difference between the two.

    I am also toying with the idea of building a "Super Q-Jet" for it, and have been emailing with Cliff Ruggles about it.

    JW
     
  7. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    That's awesome Jim,
    That will answer a lot of questions for me and everyone else contemplating useing one of these roller cams. The AED carburetor felt great on my previous engine, and it did out perform my John Osborne Q -jet, but driving it around on the street, I had to step on the gas just a bit with moderate braking. Getting Cliff to build a super Q-jet is a great idea. It would allow him to showcase what his carbs can do and how they stack up against the larger Holley carbs. I can't wait to see this.
     
  8. 69GS400s

    69GS400s ...my own amusement ride!

    My main issue/problem was that you'd ship that motor back here and Larry would bolt up the Qjet without knowing if its going lean on him.
     
  9. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member


    I wasn't planning on doing that. I want to initially use the AED for awhile before I start experimenting. I'd love to have the option of a Ruggles Q-jet though.
     
  10. 71stagegs

    71stagegs bpg member #1417

    Hey Alan How was the winter on 3rd street?What cam you running in your roller motor:3gears:
     
  11. pro tour gsx

    pro tour gsx pro tour gsx

    just put a pro systems /holley 950 on my 470 and it does the same thing as yours larry i tried to adjust the floats got a little better i think
     
  12. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member


    Mike,
    It will be interesting to see if there is a power difference between a box stock Holley HP1000 and my AED carburetor. I know the HP Holleys don't do this. Jim should be able to help us answer that question when my motor goes back on the dyno.
     
  13. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Jim,
    Can you post some pictures of the engine with the stock chrome valve covers? Kinda curious how it looks.:TU: :)
     
  14. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    A little update on the wizard's motor..

    I fit the new SRE pan..

    Nice pickup with extra support tab..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Steve's saving paper... just writes the instructions on the inside of the oil pan... he's very green I hear.. :laugh:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    And we gave her the stock plug wire routing/valve cover look..

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Tom Rix is hopefully going to be in town here in early May, and he offered to bring one of his Super Stock Q-jets to test on the motor.. Until then, it's just holding the floor down.. Larry is still working on the old motor in his car, so he can drive it over to John C's work to do the swap, so he is in no big rush for it.. It has the 290H roller cam in it now, ready to go back on the pump.. we will see what happens.

    JW
     
  15. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member

    Looks awesome Jim! What kind of oil should I be using with this engine? I just ordered the new 1/2" pick up from Robb MC. He informed me that he won't be able to ship it for 10 days. I should have the Aeroquip push lok hose before that. I also want to remove the rest of my A/C and install a delete plate. Should make it much easier for the engine swap. I'm almost done with my engine. Hopefully it runs good and I can drive it down to Yardley's shindig on May 14th. Thanks for the pictures, can't wait to see the dyno results.:TU:
     
  16. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Roller cam or no, the only oil I would run in something like this is Joe Gibbs HR oil.. or Brad Penn in a pinch.

    Lots of highly stressed parts in motors like this, and they need good oil.

    JW
     
  17. clu269

    clu269 Well-Known Member

    I cant wait to hear the numbers with the 290H. Is this the same cam that is going in my short block?
     
  18. staged2ny

    staged2ny Silver Level contributor

    just curious why did you switch to the 290h?
     
  19. LARRY70GS

    LARRY70GS a.k.a. "THE WIZARD" Staff Member


    It's not a 290H, it's a 290HR, a roller equivalent to the flat tappet 290H. The roller cam that was dynoed in my engine was 234*/247* on a 113 LSA. My heads flowed 334/250 @ .600 lift. Jim felt I could make even more power across the RPM range with a straight pattern cam like the 290H. It is 238*/238* on a 112 LSA. Think about it, I don't need such a heavy exhaust split with these heads. The 290HR will have 4* more intake duration, and a 1* narrower LSA. It has 9* less exhaust duration, which I do not need, and the overall overlap will be the same or less, so it will idle just as good. Can't wait for the engine to go across the dyno again. Stay tuned:laugh: :kodak:
     
  20. Jim Weise

    Jim Weise EFI/DIS 482

    Yes it is Clu, and the fact that we may not be doing the whole motor for you is one of the reasons I really wanted to run this one.. I am holding off on ordering it until we see the results.

    I don't anticipate any issues, but you never know, best to be sure of a grind before we send it out the door.

    JW
     

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