I finally finished the traction performance chart. This chart will tell you "HOW'EM I DOING" and we can discuss some latest news in traction recipes, and converter efficiency. The calculations represent the typical factory weight A body with 3 series gears. Rate your performance on pages 2 & 3.
Gary, thanks for the information. I just joined this site and I am building a street/strip '80 Regal with a Buick 350 and will find these charts and advice helpful.
John, The Regals have soft springs from the factory so you have a head start already. Before you spend a ton of money on the suspension, consider a rear HR anti sway bar. This shortcuts air bags, relocating upper and lower control arms, etc, with few exceptions. Just adding softer springs to my 67 GS gave me perfect bite at the track and 95 to 100 percent traction on the street with MT 28-12.5X15. I use cheap gas shocks. I removed my 70/30 shocks and the cheap gas shocks lift the front end just as fast and handles way better. Stock rear lower control arms can be boxed to prevent squirming the grommets loose. Original rubber replacements work fine. Upper control arms only need fresh gromments, or use adjustable arms if pinion angle corrections are needed. Anyway, a good GOAL is to have all your numbers on one line of this chart for a street/strip car and get perfect bite anywhere but gravel.
Gary, thanks for the advice. Here is what I have already: The 80 Regal V6. 80+K miles, zero rust which is a phenom here in the Garden State. Minor damage to the front header panel on the right and the car has a starboard list due to a bad right front spring. Donor 350 block, possibly could buy one of Issac Zane's from B&B Machine in Long Island. He said he had one there and it was for sale. Moser 12 bolt set up for G-body with 4:56 gears and a WaveTrac differential This cost my buddy dearly and he needed to dump it, so I helped him out since he never used it. With that, I got a complete Dick Miller A/G body "4 link" set up with adjustable upper bars and single adjustable shocks. I need to do the front, but haven't started yet. I did want to lower the car about 1 to 1.5 inches, but need to have the soft springs in the back to do it. For the front, I was thinking of stock with new spindles to lower it, but 2" is a bit much. TRZ makes a 1.5 drop, but is is for drag racing only using billet aluminum steering arms I will be using 28 to 29" rear tires and a 26" front. Don't want too much forward rake; and this will be 70% street and 30% track usage. Any comments, criticisms, or other stuff is welcome. Thanks for your time and trouble already
Check with the "V8 Buick Powered Regals" for compatable springs for the G body and the stance they provide. Not sure my A body spring choices will benefit your car. Looks like you have a great start on the suspension and traction parts. Too big of tire diameter may complicate things. I'd look at max 28" dia tires. If your Moser rear end has the raised ears where the upper arms connect, you will not need traction bars of any kind, only an anti-roll bar such as HR parts n stuff bar. You would get great traction anywhere but gravel!
Fun Math........ read slow - get pencil and paper. This 60 ft formula is based on 184 divided by MPH in the mi. But it is possible for a full bodied car with a 3.42 gear to achieve a 175 factor (175 divided by 111 MPH = 1.58 60 ft) and improve all the ET numbers. A bone stock muscle car with all stock gears, tires, etc. likely could not perform a 200 factor (200 divided by 105 MPH = 1.90 60 ft). So, a factor between 200 and 190 good, from 190 to 184 very good, 184 to 175 Pro-efficiency. To rate yourself; take your 60 ft time X your speed, eg. (1.87 60 ft X 109 MPH =203 factor) Our 184 factor chart says this car is not doing so well and needs to go for a 1.69 60ft. The 1/4 mi ET would go from about 12.40 to 12.15. However, with a 175 factor he would get 1.61 at 109 around 12.00 ET or possibly 11.90’s at 110. SOLUTION; See page 1, get frame brackets, positraction, skylark springs, HR anti-roll bar, JW 9.5 converter, 26” MT street radials, enough fuel to carb, and go from there. www.V8buick.com will get you the rest of the way. ALSO READ http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=213538
My best 60 foot was a 1.58 but that was once, it is usual in the 1.6x range. Top speed is a 117MPH and best ET is a 10.764 with 1.58 I'm in the 187 and with 1.6 60 feet time I'm in the 191-196 range.
my boat(wildcat) comes in at 195 ratioo No: best 60' was 2.175 best 1/4 15.09 best trap spead 90.1 mph scott
Robert, I think you should have a speed of 122-123 to match your 10.76 ET. You may have too much rear gear, and/or not enough fuel at the finish line. A 4.10 gear would drop 500 or so rpm stress off the motor and pick up some MPH without slowing your ET. Might help traction too, since your 60ft is behind on the chart. With everything working well, you should have most, or all, your numbers on the same line of the chart. without giving up any ET. I have enjoyed watching your progress, and like your car. Your helping spread the respect for Buicks across the globe.
Tnx Gary I do best reminding people what a Buick is all about! I think the lower MPH is caused by the 28" tires I have on the car instead of the 29.5-30 tires that would work best with my 4.56 gear combo. I still have new 3.73:1 gears in the box laying around, if I ever decide to spray it with a 100-125 No2 shot. Also our trans was slipping we found out, so perhaps that wasn't helping either. The tires I know for sure are to low for this combo. 60 foot improvement options: remove the front swaybar (have not done that before) Swap the KONI SP1A dragshocks for a different brand. (KONI uses a different approach in weight transfer then the other shock companys) Replace the front and/or rear coil springs for..
Gary: Good work man. Im curious though what GVW's were we talking about on average there, or did I mis it ? Thanks Wil:3gears:
I referred to the average streetable stockbody (3800-4000 lbs) which is less likely to be gutted. The attatchment says..... "This chart takes into consideration the weight, the aerodynamics of our A body Buicks, and the predominant use of 3 series gears." At the 120 MPH line (see attatchment), I note that it is difficult for heavy weight cars to maintain the 184 factor at faster speeds and ET's. They are likely to be lighter by 500 lbs or more and use 3.90 or 4 series gears. Thanks for asking; I'll edit this in.
Gary, I just read your chart and wanted to see if you have any suggestions for my car. I know there are a lot of variables. I'm just trying to wring every fraction of a second out of it. On your chart, I'm at the 1.47 60' @124.2 mph but my ET is only 10.74. I'd love to have a 10.60. I do use a 3.73 gear and the car scaled at 3752 last weekend. I plugged in my numbers and it rated me at 182. Not bad. Where should I possibly be looking for improvement? Thanks, David
DAVID, I think you were parked near Gary Steele at Bowling Green in October. I was tempted to start a discussion about that 10.60 issue but...I'm extreemly reluctant to go around "giving advice". Gary Steele later told me that you were a super nice guy though. * My first concern was the height of the chassis at the rear and the springs you had. Can't remember what you had....but low and soft would be a plus. Moog 5401 may help on the rear, especially with 5230 on front. Big chassis movement within the range of the springs does not rob ET (springs have there own self contained stored energy), this movement helps the IC (instant center) and traction, which improves ET. * Lowering the lower control arms to 1"-1.5" higher in front than back, helps load the rear tires on launch. Improves IC, especially with soft front springs. * A stock sway bar is better than none. HR is exceptional. DSE is less noticable and works good. * Converter- This is where you can make a differance, sometimes a big differance. The biggest problem is sorting proven performance from hype. Here may be a step toward seeking out a widely unknown technology...Read Mark Dalquist's comments post # 11. http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=121458&highlight=coan+25mm See if JW offers this technology in his converters or call EDGE about their "fastest" guarantee. These two are much lower priced than a 258mm Coan#20320-2 (must be a -2). * I think you discovered the torque benefits of short shifting that day at BG. What about moving the torque curve with cam timming? Or boosting torque within the timming curve on the Ign (more initial timing)? Or Tuning/plotting the A/F curve all the way through the 1/4 mi? Inovate provides plotting the 1/4 with A/F & RPM on your PC (richer at low RPM might help). Hope this helps... by the way... your ET falling short of 10.60 is based on torque, not HP. Your 60 ft and MPH are fine. Send me a PM anytime.
I need to check with JW about the convertor I'm running, a 10" 30 Series. Issue is my 60's are ussually low 1.60's with a best of 1.59. But best ET is 11.83 @112 mph. Now I do run at a track with some elevation and most of the time the corrected altitude is >3000'. When I put the car on a chassis dyno it only made ~354 HP, the flywheel reading was 503. The dyno operator who was in the car asked if I had a loose covertor in it becuase he said it didn't feellike it was hooking up at the top of the gear o No: I run a RobbMC mechanical fuel pump, the pressure was good, but I need to put the gauge back on for the race tomorrow and check it again.
Thanks Gary. I wish you had stopped and introduced yourself. The springs in the rear are 'stock' GS club springs. The front are worn out Moroso 47190 springs which I pulled out last night and put a set of 'stock' GS club springs in just so I could drive it to a car show tomorrow. I'm looking at springs and trying to sort this out so I'll give those you suggest a try. The short shift did help a lot. As for the sway bar, I do have an anti-roll bar installed which is not the same but it seems to help the car. Still wrapping my brain around the timing suggestions. Thanks again, David
Well, follow up on my set up, I just got off the phone with JW and they said my slip percentage was right about where it should be. They also said the biggest factor with my times being off what other guys run is the track elevation. Oh well, nothing I can do about that and I'm not dropping the cash for a new convertor right now, if I want to go faster, I'll just need to put the drivetrain in the GS clone that's stripped out for racing :laugh:
mltdwn12, Your track numbers are great. The 60ft is faster than the 1.64 shown on the chart, but a lower rear gear can do that when traction is right on. Typically the heads up class racers will have a super quick 60ft for the ET and MPH they run. If you look on the chart for their MPH you'll have to look 2 lines down for the ET and 4 lines down for the 60ft. They have deep gears, great traction, and the worlds best converters. A Chassis dyno is far less reliable than an engine dyno. I saw a 4000 lb Buick run 12.10 at 111 with a stock switch pitch converter (11.90 at 111 fixed pitch) with only "332 HP". I think YOUR JW CONVERTER IS DOING GREAT already. Your a little ahead of the chart like the class racers. Be happy.
David, Now I remember you telling me about the anti-sway bar; the big straight bars with levers type. Those will work. And now I remember you telling me about your GS club springs. They were holding your rear end sorta high. The rear will drop with the 5401 springs. Don't use air bags to hike up the rear or that will also nullify the IC advantages of shorter springs. If you measure your wire dia. and compare them to these Moogs, you'll see why these Moogs work for performance. The Moogs will last the rest of your life. They don't fall down in a year like Moroso springs. To me,these Moog springs were as beneficial & cheap as if someone sold me a thousand dollar torque converter for $175. I ran big tires, firm springs, and an airbagged high rear for years; never again. Go low and springy, use a tire that fits or modify the wheel well and wheel spacing as needed.
