The fastest street car I ever drove was a 427/435 horse 4-spd Corvette! And I have no doubt that was an underrated HP rating? in 1967! One of my roommates in the Marines had a 68 Chevelle 396/375 horse 4-spd! Definitely underrated HP IMHO....I've heard true ratings at 425? Based on both cars I've ridden in or driven? Definitely underrated.
Call me crazy, I say the factory HP numbers are a moot point. I believe it's a common misconception that the engineers built the fastest cars they could. No way! The big three sent a memo out to all the makes that read something like- " build a reliable car thats around 400 horse and runs mids 13s in the 1/4". And thats what they built. It's no accident that the HP numbers are all about the same along with the ETs. There is no doubt in my mind that any of the makes could have built 500 HP mills with ease in 1970. It's almost effortless to get these numbers today. Denny manner could have easily built a monster 455 with huge HP numbers, but his marching orders told him otherwise.
Oh for sure the BBC architecture is superior in most every way for making big power they could have owned everyone
With all due respect, Larry. Those of us that were privy to Richard's car realize that Badie was lured into a race he couldn't win. Yes, both cars were stock. Richard's was just a little "less" stock than Badie's. It was certainly a fun day to watch Buick begin its rise to fame.
The 440 Mopars were usually a better street car than the Hemi's. The stock street Hemi's were hard to tune and the stock cam's were not very good. Anyone who was winning with a Hemi put a racer Brown cam in them. Then you would see some HP.
I used to have a customer who was a mechanic at a chrylser dealership during the muscle car era. He said all the hemi cars were nightmares. They were all plug fouling turds that never ran right.
I was there. I had owned a new 1969 Super Bee which I sold back in the early 70s and was thinking of getting back into musclecars after our Son graduated from high school. I actually went to see the Hemi beat the Buick and was trying to decide whether to buy a hemi or a 440 six pack car. That day blew me away and after getting home joined the GSCA and went looking for a GS. Ended up buying my first GS, a '72 GS350 which I gave to my son. That race was the beginning of the GS mania for many of us. Thanks for asking. Also thanks for posting that 2003 article. I haven't seen it. Brought back some fond memories.
How many Stage 1 vs Hemi shootouts have there been now? 1. The Original - Buick won 2. The one at the Muscle Car Nationals - Hemi won 3. The one in Canada that the Buick won and the Hemi guys put there car on the trailer and left after getting beat the first round 4. Jim Rodgers' Stage 1 vs some Hemi - Hemi Won (I think it was Jim, please correct me if I am wrong) Any more that I am missing?
I think a Stage1 vs 440-6 face off would be a better and fairer shoot out. 440-6's were also special tuned or "optimized" ringer for the street or 1/4. Could you even get A/C in one? Fiberglass hood, no hinges, little steelies with no hubcaps, 3:54 and 4:10 only out back. Weren't really Hemi put in street cars for NASCAR rules. Yes they ran great when freshly tuned but they were really 180+ mph motors.
Ol Blue is and was a beautiful GS,..I would do some despicable things for a set of those Centerline Prostock wheels
B4 Centerline sold out I talked to a Juan I believe it was and he said he could make me a set as they still had plenty of the centers ,..dumbass me didn't follow thru on it
Me too, Brad. At the Musclecar Nationals in, I believe, 1990, I went three rounds beating 1) a W30 Olds, and 2) a 6 Pack Super Bee, before losing out in the final to a 1967 Hemi Coronet. I had beat him twice in qualifying but lost traction on the trophy run. My car was a '70 GS455 Platinum Mist Convertible. Update: Went back and looked at my pictures and the Gainesville, FL shootout was in April 1989, not 1990.
I believe it!! and love it.. and the A12 Road Runners were truly made for the 1/4. I can't say they were ringers as all the info about them was out there but just how much more tailor made for street racing could they be
Wasn't this the same event where Bob Lundquist's (sp) 70 Stage 1 ran the black Hemi Road Runner in round two of the Stage 1 vs Hemi shootouts? I think I have a VHS tape of this event.
There is the lore, and then there is reality. Let me tell you about the 1970 GSX Stage 1 motor I just built and dynoed. Typically I don't dyno resto motors.. they are more about looks and correct parts, vs performance, but because we were having this discussion, I dynoed this one. This motor is all stock, save for the .041 Fel Pro Head gaskets, and the Speed Pro forged off the shelf pistons. Those two changes resulted in a compression reduction down to 9.5-1 vs the typical as produced factory motor that was right about 10-1. The claimed 10.5-1 never happened in a production motor, that spec is achieved with a .010 deck clearance, every one I have seen has been about .040 in the hole, like this one was. It has a TA Stage 1 cam, which is pretty close to the factory numbers. It made 338 HP and 458 Torque. Considering the compression reduction, that motor is right on...with another point of compression, you can add 40 ftlbs and 35-40 HP, and it would match the numbers reported by Buick engineers (Denny Manner) who did the testing back in the day on the engineering motors.. It was not so much that our motors were screamers in stock form.. it was more than the foundation was great, the intake untouched will support 500 HP, and when you breath on them with a bigger cam and message the heads just a touch, 500 TQ and 400 HP are easily achievable. Other competitive makes of the time, were more refined, and it was harder to get that kind of increase, with just a blueprint and a cam change. Mike Bucy's totally stock 70 Stage 1 back in the late 70's would run 13.80's to low 14's, up here where the density altitude on a good day is 2500 ft... which is in line with what my dyno results were. All he added was a set of skinny M&H cheater slicks. JW
