The Big T/A Alumn Head Sale Sure Has Me Thinking

Possible, but I wouldn't call it normal...

Most I have seen with a pipe, is 283 cfm.. fully ported 1.81 valve

JW

 

BTW, Jim. I need you to email me your paypal address for that cam.
How does the pipe affect flow?

 

Welp... just pulled some flow sheets..

The 283 CFM heads were Sweesy's STG 2 TE head, but the exhaust is the same as the SE..

And it had 1.755 valves

Went 258 at .500, 274 at .600, 283 at .700


Now, I went and pulled up Jim Byers SE heads, they were just a pocket port and chamber work, with the 1.755 valve they went 246 @ .500, 259@ 600 and 267@ 700..

All our tests are with a pipe, simply because if your not using a pipe, your gonna need to explain to me why your using a clay radius on the intake..

They do the same thing.. simulate the assembled engine.

JW

 

email is jim@trishieldperf.com

Pipe generally picks up the numbers 8-12 cfm.

JW

 

Thanks, Jim.
What is the clay radius? How will it affect the numbers?

 

John,

You are definitely on target. These prices will for sure make iron heads into good door stoppers. Truthfully though the low budget young guys will benefit as the iron heads will drop in price while us old farts step up. So in a round about way everyone benefits. I guess its the trickle down effect.

Myself, Rob Chilenski, John Massoud and Bruno dipaulo, we were all in the mid to high 9's on steel heads. Now we all sold our iron heads and switched over to aluminum. Its that need for speed I guess.

As with mine...:Brow: just got them in today! Stage 1 TE heads from Tri Shield. Saturday I will be off to Stage 1 auto to drop them off. Rob Chilenski told me that by March's end he should have the engine done and on the dyno. This would put me back on target for Norwalk. I guess I'll have to sleep out at his shop:laugh: .

Anyway I will post the flow numbers. PLEASE keep in mind that I am also good friends with Rob and Greg Gessler and Greg wants to take a peek at them, which I am sure he would also want to flow them. I have no doubt that the figures from two different shops will be very similar. JW also assured me and has no problem with this, that the heads will show similar numbers on Gregs bench. I figure this way there should be no doubt or questions on the numbers. Lastly the proof will be on the dyno and then at the track at Norwalk....minimum 750 hp & 9.20-30's (providing the car hooks etc) . I am still holding a lit candle to make it to Norwalk with it.

JW thanks for the great work!:tu:

Rick Martinez

 

Steve,

Here is an example of an exhaust port on a Stg 1 iron head with and without a pipe.



Lift .100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600
w/o 60 134 163 187 188 190
with 60 134 167 198 202 207

Everything that I put on a flow bench uses a radiused port entrance... kind of like the clay that Jim is talking about. My device bolts to the face of the cylinder head and has an opening for all of the intake ports.

I looked into using the exhaust pipe back in 1997 when I first started to port cylinder heads. I called many of the cylinder head guys out of the back of National Dragster. They told me that the industry standard (at the time) was to not use the pipe. I dont know why but that is what I was told. This may have changed over the years and I have not investigated it since.

Hope this helps

 

Good info as usual, John. Obviously there is a difference depending on who is flowing, and what setup they are using. Sometimes it makes it difficult to compare numbers. I guess the ET will tell what the deal really is.

 

I have an open question here regarding the "pipe" when flowing heads. Geez the last time I smoked...agh I mean used a pipe was way back in the '70s while I was listening to the Greatful Dead:Brow:

Seriously though, please correct me if I'm wrong here guys. Does a pipe suppose to simulate the primary tube on a header.? If so I would think that using a pipe would be the accurate way on flowing as this is what it would flow when headers are attached. Just like when the clay is used on the intake port to simulate an intake.

Thanks
Rick

 

Yep, that is exactly what a 4" length of pipe will do.. All it is doing is keeping the air "in line" as it exits the port, just like if the entire header was bolted on.

I know there is a discrepancy among practices, that is why I always clearly state that we use a pipe when flowing exhausts, so no one has any question if it was used or not. I have been accused of "fluffing the numbers" in the past, regarding this pipe issue.

If you have any more questions, call my porting/dyno shop, and talk to Ron or Brian. 763-785-1949

They will be glad to discuss it with any of you.

JW

 

Glad you got the heads Rick... what do you think of the polish?

JW

 

Jim,

If Rick just received the heads who do you think was next to him in bed last night.... his wife.. or the heads???:grin:


Rick,

I agree that it would seem proper to use the exhaust pipe. It only makes sense to have as many parts attatched to the cylinder head as possible. I have also seen where some guys bolt there intakes to the head and put it on the bench. The porters that I have talked with say when doing this you may see the flow numbers go up or go down. Ideally ya want them to go up. Who knowso No:

Bruce,

I dont know why your only at 230 on the exhaust. Here is what I can tell you.... your car is fast!!!!!! Leave it alone.

The exhaust port on a Stg 2 style head is one of the best in the industry. Bar none!!! I have had several local guys tell me they wish they had an exhaust port that good.

When I do an exhaust port I keep the venturi (smallest point on the exhaust seat) at 86 to 88 percent of the valve head diameter. I also like to use a radiused exhaust seat. Its not neccesary but better in my opinion. This process and just cleaning up the crap at the bottom of the seat will net the flow figures below.
Flow numbers at 28" H2O
.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
exh 67 128 175 214 231 237 241

Now... go in and clean up around the guide and polish the runner then you will see these numbers.

.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
exh 71 129 187 225 249 259 264

Either way these exhaust ports are some of the best around.

I have heard that the exhaust flow from .100 to .400 on a normally aspirated engine is the most important aspect of a cylinder head. If you can get 75% of the spent exhaust gasses out by the time the intake valve starts to open then you create a negative pressure in the cylinder and therefore start to pull the intake charge in. I am sure someone else could explain this much better than I but I hope you kind of get the picture.

I wanted to edit this post and add some flow figures from the Stg 1 heads. They are very impressive also. I have only ported one set of Stg 1 aluminum heads and didn't spend much time on the exhaust so I am sure there is more air in this port.

.100 .200 .300 .400 .500 .600 .700
exh 67 129 173 204 220 231
But again I must say that it is cheaper to build any kind of HP with the aluminum heads.

Take Care

 

J-Dub
How was the install on Rick's Rockers system?
Did you guys go with longer Valve Stems?
Which spring?

Rick
I'd be surprised NOT to see your Car running at Norwalk....Seems like plenty of time.GOOD LUCK!

Now I gotta get to work myself.....That bump in the Q16 scares me with my "heavyweight".

 

Greg you got alot of good numbers and advice from what I see the very best in buick heads. So which is it? AL Se1 or SE2?

 

Gary,

The rocker issue seemed to run into problems. I still have them and instead for now have the TA rockers installed though JW did have to trim them down for clearance (not to keen on that) Anyway no doubt I want to check out your system in person at Norwalk and I will be bringing the T&D rockers with me. I will hold off a bit on any returns, as I would still like to install them if it is possible. I did check with T&D and I was told they no longer do the installation and machine work.

We went with 2.20 intake valves and 1.81 exhaust with the stem diameter at .341

Now its all in Rob Chilenski's lap.

John as referring to your comment....it was the best head(s) I got in a while....:laugh: :laugh: just joking of course otherwise I will have a set of my TA rockers shafts sticking out of me from where the sun doesn't shine by my wife Karen:laugh:

Rick

 

Some of the shots. Again thanks JW.

 

some more

TTT

 

Sure.. showing off your titanium retainers...

Hope you got those bad boys back in the bags, they are assembly clean, ready to drop on the shortblock.

Got it running yet?.. what's the holdup...? p :laugh:

Racing season is right around the corner, pulled George's tube car out of the corner of the shop today, and put a new 4.29 gear set in his rear.

Then fired here up... good to hear that music again.

See ya at Norwalk..


JW

PS.. I assume that whatever your useing to downsize the pics is what makes them look so bad, since I think you have a nice digital.. Get ahold of MS Photodraw.. best resizing program I have seen, and downsized with it, those heads look like this...

 

:Brow:

 

Good photo of what the polishing does.. under the valve cover is not polished, and the outside is.

But pics never really have done justice to that process. Got to see it in person.

Rick now has manifold and heads done with it.

JW