Can anyone give me a roundabout price for TA Sportsman Rods compared to the cost of reconditioning Stock 455 Rods? I'm planning my '70 Stage 1 buildup and trying to get an idea what my budget will be. I'm probably going to run the new TA Stage1 Al heads and hope to approach that 500 hp mark with stock exhaust manifolds like everyone on here's been discussing lately. Just so you know what the combo will likely be. Thanks!
TA Sportsman Rods (Press or Full Float)- $699.00 You will have to pin fit the small end of that rod-- $70.00 Total cost $769.00 But good to 800+ HP.. or anything the vast majority of us will do to them. Stock rods go like this.. Assuming you have 8 good rods (which may be assuming a lot) we won't talk cores.. if you need cores, then we get $50 per set. Here is a cut and past of a past discussion on stock rods.. -------- Stock rods can be a real pain to re-size.. due to the fact that the original bolts did not align the cap real well.. it's referred to as "doweling up" on the bolts.. IF the big end was bored originally with the cap not centered on the original bolts, then it was fine with the sloppy stock bolts, but when you put the ARPs in, then you end up with a cap that is shifted way off to one side, as it now dowels up on the new bolts. The only way to fix that is to cut a bunch of the rod, and then resize it, to get the cap side of the bore to line back up with the rod side of the bore.. and then you end up with a rod that is short.. and stock rods vary in length to being with, and this can compound this issue. ----------------- Assuming you don't have this issue to deal with, then the cost of a set of stockers with good reliablity look like this. ARP Bolts - $70.00 Shot Peen- $80.00 Re-size Big end- $158.00 Cryogenically freeze- $90.00 $418.00 This is what we do to a stock rod, for up to 525 HP. I have run these with very good success. The cryo process eliminates the need to beam polish the rod, because it eliminates the stress risers in the rods. Which is what your trying to accomplish with the grinder and beam polishing.. And Buick rods don't break in the beam anyway.. the cap typically breaks. In my opinion the cryo is better overall, and more cost effective, due to the fact that the cryo treatment works on all the material, not just the beam, and small end. So, if your never going to modify the motor beyond the stock exhaust manifold configuration, then stock rods will be just fine. If you think you might get HP crazy in the future, then the better rods are a good upgrade now. Be aware that doing a stock rod correctly is not the easiest thing in the world. So make sure your machinist of choice is up to the task. JW
Bryan, Read Jims post very carefully there man. There is some good info there. Especially in the area of the stock rods. I have found the trick is to start out with a good set of cores. Make Sure you find a machinist that knows how to run a rod machine if you go this route. I was taught that rods are machined, as they live in the motor, in pairs. A good machinist knows this and this is how he works them. If you find a good one, I would think he could resize them in a couple hours on a good machine. I did my own in 2-3, and that was on a old Sunnen machine. Rods do a very simple thing.....they connect the pistons to the crank. Thats it. Simple job, but very important. When I was going to school I tried to read alot more into even the simple tasks(rods being one of them), until I met a guy named David Nickens. I would have to say he "schooled" me on what a rod is for,lol. In any case............. You'll save money in the beginning by doing your stock rebuilds, but in the long run, I would try and go for the TA's. Better to not have to worry about them, then to step up the power later and have problems................. just my opinion.................
stock rods i have around 400 hp with stock rods and arp bolts done by a local machine shop but i think i only have about 9 to 1 comp but the engine stayed together to 6500 with a 4000 stall . the even stayed together when i lost a driveshaft at 104 mph and busted the trans case off the engine(oops)but like i said im not pushing that big of horses. :ball:
Thanks for the helpful information guys! Jim, I appreciate the great detail you provide to anyone who posts a question here. You truly earn all the buisness you get! And you will certainly get some of mine. Do you have info somewhere about your custom parts, for example, your intake shield. Just curious. BuickDav, where are you in KS? I'm here in McPherson right now at McPherson College doing a 1 week workshop on finishing and painting. Having a blast, literally! Alec, thanks for the input. 6500 RPM sure is high for a Big Block Buick. Hope it keeps hanging in there for ya. :beer
I'm curious about this price Jim. Is this for real? TA's catalog lists TA1632A Sportsman Conn Rods for $1,245.95! $546.95 more. o No: ou:
Yup... That's the Billet Rod for $1245 .. but no biggie, we have a good $700 rod now.. Very few folks on this board will ever need a nicer rod. Have half a dozen sets already out the door in engines, or going into motors here now.. worth every penny. PN for the Sportsman Forged Rod is TA 1633A for press fit, 1633B for floating pin. Not sure why there is no price on the website.. Come to think of it.. better call TA, for the retail price on that rod.. I think it's 700.. but maybe it's 725... I sell them for 700, when I put them in a motor here.. I sell very few parts, that are not unique to us, outright. We focus more on building stuff here, than we do on selling parts, although I have set a guy or two up with my prefered part selection for doing a motor. So a retail price for that particular part is not on the tip of my tongue.. Bryan, Our intake shield is not really a piece I am trying to sell as an individual part. .. that's why there is not section for it on the company site.. Pretty easy reason why, because it requires that you aluminum weld the mounts on the bottom of the intake. If you do have the ablilty or access to getting it done properly, I will sell you the kit. And I put them on here pretty inexpensively, if someone sends me the manifold, or we supply it.. install is free, if we polish the manifold at the same time. It's one of those little things that make the stuff done in the shop here different.. Often times, when one looks at developing a product, ease of installation for the average guy, gets focused on more than anything else. That's very true in the case of this intake shield deal.. don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the stuff out there won't do the job, but it's questionable in my mind if that's the best way to do it. It's the easy way... But the best way to do something, is rarely the easiest. JW
Jim W I recently talked to Dave @ TA. And he recommended I use the factory style tin intake manifold with my performer on iron heads (block not decked and min milling on the heads). It seems to me the other TA composite gaskets would seal much better. I could easily weld your pan to the manifold. Which would seal the best, or which do you recommend?o No:
I will not under any circumstances put a valley pan under an aluminum manifold.. That's my feelings on it.. I know folks do it, but that valley pan was never designed for anything but that 60lb iron intake, and the iron heads, on an assembly that is perfectly lined up, and machined. Before those composition gaskets were available, I used to make my own.. I would use the .015 or .032 thickness gaskets, depending on things line up. Shoot me an email, and I can set you up with a shield kit. JW
I haven't bolted my intake on yet, but I planned to use a valley pan (already bought it). It's a very very mild 455, and an Edelbrock Performer intake. Why do you not recommend it Jim? ..and sorry if you explained it up above... I don't follow what the problem is? Is it going to leak? Warp? Underperform? Hurt my intake? o No:
Bryan, I am up in the NW corner of the state. I will be passing by pretty close this weekend in route to picking up parts. And I have to stop by gsparts Pete and pick up a rear also. Are you gonna be here for just the week ? Wish you had a little more time. We are having a little event just up into Nebraska in July. Isn't there some "extra credit" you could take..:grin: later........................
BuickDav, Ya man, I'm only here until mid-day Saturday. Appreciate the invite, though. Thanks! Jim, That's cool about the parts thing. I was just curious and used the intake shield as an example, as I know you have come up with several wiz-bang parts. Thanks again.
Sealing Problems Rick You have critical water & fuel sealing ports that must seal. I'm sure Jim has experienced far to many problems, and I know he is not the type that likes to re-do.:af:
Crack... Has TA Performance ever looked into maybe using Crack Technology? I know Mercedes Benz uses crack technology where they Laser Scribe the big end of the rod obviously. And Hydraulically crack the rod along the Laser Scribe. This give the 2 pieces of metal a perfect mating surface to one another and the caps recieve added strength. Just a thought figured since the cap end sucks might as well strengthen that end...
