I'm in the process of collecting parts for a 455 build-up & was thinking for insurance I was thinking of installing a block girdle.I'm hoping to be in the 550hp range.How much should the machine work cost to have it installed? Should a person be thinking of using a halo as well?Will a stock oil pan (with sump mods) work with this? thanks
In your range of 550 HP I would say no to the halo and if your on the fence would also say no to a girdle. But if you want some insurance you can always get the heavy duty main caps. A few vendors sell them, I know of one Jack Merkel located in NY. Its a lot cheaper. If your going for a girdle I'll agree that is one of the best insurance policies for the block with higher HP. You may want to wait about a month or two. As this new Bull Dog Buick block is made and sold there will no doubt be a trickle down effect as guys will be selling off pieces such as the girdle as with the new block the girdle is not needed and will not fit. So you may end up getting a used piece for a cheaper price. Regarding a fit, my old engine had a stock pan with a deep sump and I used the girdle along with an extension on the oil pick-up. Never had any problems. The engine in my GS now has the girdle with stock main caps and no halo and it dynoed at 780 hp.
Rick what is the buildup on your engine? I think I remember reading it a long time ago, how big is that stick that it peaks out at 7000 how much squeeze etc.
Ken, there is really no need for a girdle at 550 horsepower. The stock block is not great, but it can easily handle that power level. Jim Burek
Adam, Yep, like I said also before. I agree with Jim. Around 550 hp I wouldn't look too hard at a girdle. I am not sure of the installation cost plus the cost of the girdle. There are a bunch of guys pushing out over that HP amount that run without a girdle. I would apply that money to other things let's see, better ported heads, or a nice convertor, suspension mod. Anotherwords to help complete the total combination. Or just not spend it, keeping your overall costs lower. Most important factor: GET A GOOD ENGINE BUILDER or MACHINIST, that knows and has experience Buicks. VERY and UPMOST important. Ken, When you mention squeeze, is it nitrous you are referring too? If that's what you meant, I gave up nitrous back in September of 1990...geez I sound like someone from AA p Well the stuff is addicting (I mean on the cars) :laugh: Ken the 780 hp is all Buick muscle. The current roller cam: Int lift: .708, dur at .050 is 276 Exh lift: .710, dur at .050 is 280. Lobe sep: 110. We dynoed the engine up to 7200 rpm's it maxed at 780 hp at 7,000 then losing only 8 hp and 15 ft lb torque from 7,000 to 7200. At 5700 rpm's it makes 709 hp and increases up to 7,000 before it starts to flatten and drop at 7200 to 767.8 hp At 4700 rpm the torque is 622.0 and max's out at 5500 rpm at 654.2 then slowly drops off. At 7,000 it is 585.1 and 7200 drops to 560.1 But with this much power to make and the engine to live long I needed the block girdle, along with the lifter bore girdle and a filled block. Now if we start talking about the new Bull Dog Block....oooh I can't wait.
Okay, this might be a little stupid and off topic.... I've read a lot on this board about needing a girdle for the 455, and I understand an ungirdled Buick 455 might not be able to handle as much hp as other makes. I also understand the "cutoff" in HP before needing a girdle. However, I've always thought 550 hp was a lot. Can someone put this in perspective for me (like ET & trap speed)?
- How fast on 550hp?........It all depends on the car. Figure on a typical 3600-3800 Skylark with good gears, transmission, tyres and suspension Low 11's to high 10's at just over 120mph should be about it. Is that quick enough for ya?...... :3gears:
Rick what I meant was compression. Did you use TA rockers or Jesel type.I was thinking of doing a custom solid but now I was thinking roller!! the block is filled and it has a main cap girdle I am just wondering about the big springs on my stage 3 roller rockers. the engine is probably making just a tick over 700 h.p.and I want it up closer to 750ish.its a 491 stage 3 :3gears:
Ken, You can get the main caps pinned and that will be strong enough to hold up to bout 650-700hp. This is alot better for your application and alot cheaper. I'm running around 635hp and thats what I did. :TU:
Guy and Gals, Is it truly HP that will break these blocks or is it HEAVY rotating weight???? Main cap pinching??? No or bad balance jobs???? Harmonics??? I use this analogy using to different scenarios. #1. Take a set of boxing gloves that weigh around 2 lbs and shadow box for a while. See how much stress that puts on your arms. Then (after you recover) #2. Take a 4 lb set of boxing gloves and shadow box for a while. My guess will be that you would be able to shadow box a great deal longer with the 2 lb gloves vs. the 4 lb gloves. Now imagine if those gloves where your piston, pin, ring and rod combo flying around at 7000 rpms. Which will have ill efects on the block?????? Another cause for block failure is the main caps being pushed down in the center from the forces of the crankshaft. This will cause the cap to pinch at the parting line and tighten against the crank. Harmonics that move the main caps around can be reduced by a good quality balance job. This will increase the life of the block. Heavy rotating assemblies with parts that are not properly balanced will brake a block quicker than HP. So, a good quality short block may be able to handle 650 hp without a girdle wheras a heavy, not balanced crappy short block may only handle 500 hp. But.... there is a limit and as Rick said "CHEAP INSURANCE". You have to decide how much your willing to gamble. Later
block girdle Thanks for the input guys.I was leaning towards a girdle because as with most people,i doubt that after building a 550 hp engine a person will be satisfied.......need more power !!! I felt that I would try to build the shortblock strong enough that if i upgraded anything i wouldnt have to worry about the bottom. As for finding a Buick friendly engine shop,around here it's:your building a what???? I have a friend that runs a engine rebuild shop,so I give him information that I get from you guys & we discuss the pros & cons.Some of the machining has to be sent to other shops in the area depending what is required. My cylinder heads were gone over by another friend that builds pro-street pump gas engines in his garage.They are 70 stage 1 heads that flow 240 cfm wthat start to fall off after 550 lift.(superflow bench).He was more concerened with keeping the velocity up that overall cfm #s. By the way,his calling card on the street & the track (drives there,no trailer) is a 76 corvette,367 cid small chevy,single 4 bbl,no power adders,pump gas,th400,stock indipendant rear with 4.56 gears & upgraded half shafts,that ran a personable best this fall of 9.51@145 mph.He seems to know his s---. One thing that has slowed me down on my buildup (other than money) is the fact that no-one in this area has a torque plate for the 455.Guess i'll save up some money & buy my own.Then rent it out. thanks.
