Hi, I have a 1981 Buick Riviera with the standard 4.1L V6 engine. It's a dog and I would like a V8. The car had an option to come with the old's 307, so I'm planning on finding one and swapping the two. This will also be my first engine swap. What will I need to do the job? Engine mounts, crossmember, bellhousing? Obviously I'll need a new electrical system. But what about things like the waterpump, fuel pump, carb, alt, etc? If anyone has any good links that would help alot.
I think the electrical system should be near the same as both are carbed motors and the electrical systems between the two aren't that different. The Q-jet control might even be the same but I could see that being different. Its easiest to just pickup motors will full accessories but if you don't the alternator is pretty standard, water pump is different, PS pump is probably the same, and I have no clue on the AC. You will need the motor mounts, frame plates, oilpan (unless the donor is another FWD), and probably the fan setup and shroud. Check with www.napaonline.com for a difference in radiators and to price out the little stuff that should always be replaces when changing an engine like thermostat, belts, wires, and hoses. The trans should be the same though the chain ratio for the V6 might make the 307 feal a bit livelier as it probably has a higher ratio. This is a side area of knowledge for me as I have an older Riv and a turbo6 motor and I picked this up off of the www.turbobuick.com webboard over the years. Thanks,
Ok thanks, you brought up some things I haven't thought about. I'm looking for specific info though, like from someone who has done exactly the same swap. I've been looking around on the net but with no success. If anyone knows of a good link or two, please share. I have alot of time to do this because I lost my license :beer . Time isn't the issue, so I'm planning on restoring the entire car including exhast, suspension, steering, more.
252 to 307 A couple of things here first. The 307 Olds is no screamer, and might not be worth the hassle of swapping one into a 252 powered car. If you really want to do this I would find a donor Riv or Toro and grab everything off of the 307 powered car. Another alternative would to modify what you have with an Edelbrock Performer upgrade. They have a cam & lifters, intake manifold and carb for the 252 V6. I had one out of a 82 Cadillac Seville that I rebuilt and put in a 37 Chevy Street Rod. I used a Holley 390 CFM 4 barrel and the Edelbrock cam and intake, car had good power and a SWEET exhaust note with dual exhaust. JUst some more options while you wait for your driver's license! Take Care, Tim :Comp:
I had an '85 Riv with the 307 and I gotta tell you, it was far from a power house. It wouldn't spin the tires on wet pavement with the E-brake engaged, unless the wet pavement was 50 year old over tarred blacktop. The 307 was a great engine, very reliable, but not even close to anything "performance" related Another thing, that generation Riviera was available with a Turbo 6 and I believe that swap would not only be easier, but would give you more performance. The weak link in these is the odd-ball transmission, which CANNOT support much power at all. What I always wanted to do was swap in a Toronado/Eldorado drivetrain from an early 70's version of those cars. Those transaxles were designed to handle the power and would give you an interesting car. I loved my Riv, wish I never got rid of it, and would absolutely love to have another one. Especially right now.
I'm looking for a reliable, smooth, and gas efficient engine. From what I've read on the net and from talking with other people, the 307 is exactly that. I'm not looking for performance. Sorry, maybe this is the wrong forum for this. And if I could find a turbo 3.8 when I'm searching for the new engine, I'd jump on that in a second. But I don't think I'd ever find one, they're pretty rare (aren't they?). tmcclu: That's the other option I'm deciding apon. But I just want a better engine. It shakes real bad at certain RPMs and when turning, makes all kinds of weird noices, and underpowers the car so bad.
If you're looking for a reliable smooth and efficient engine then the 307 is definitely what you're looking for. I figured since This was in your opening line "It's a dog and I would like a V8" you were looking for more performance. The 307 may require some minor rewiring but it ought to go in well. Turbo 6's aren't too rare, there was one for sale here a while ago, and also check the website that CTX-SLPR posted, http://www.turbobuick.com, as they specialize in that and you may be able to find one quicker there.
Well I guess I'll get started on looking for one. I just want to turn my v6 buick into a v8 buick o No: .
Turbo V-6 options Insomniac, The turbo comes in two versions, the rather snappy but very rare T Type of 84-85 vintage and the less powerful carb equipped turbo 3.8 from 83 back. Buick only built around 2300 total T Types in 84 & 85 combined, so they are very rare. Not sure what the numbers are on the earlier carbed V-6's, but you have a larger displacement version of that engine that you are already unhappy with. If you are certain that an engine change is mandatory, look for a complete donor car with the engine you decide upon. Also, 307 Riv's of this vintage aren't very rare, you could find one that may suit your needs without having to convert yours. Lots of options for you out there, just be honest about your abilities and bank account before you wade into the project, nothing worse that to get a car torn apart and find you don't have the skills or cash to finish the job. Good Luck whatever you decide! Sincerely, Tim McCluskey :beer
I don't know much about these Rivs but since the car currently has the Buick V6, maybe a Buick 350 would bolt on it? Also, the 350 Olds engine was standard in 1979-80 and I think it should fit too. The thing I don't know is if this tranny is a lighter duty version of the previous 3 speed (which was mated to the 350). And I'm wondering if the transmission that came with the 252 is the same as the transmission that came with the 307. In the seventies, the non-turbo V6 cars had a lighter duty transmission.
I don't know if the tanny is the "light duty" one but it's pretty weak and I'm going to have to get it rebuilt when I pull everything out. When I floor it, something inside the transmision grinds. It's either that or the differensial. I know it's not the cv-shafts because I replaced them a couple months ago. If anyone can verify that the tranny in my v6 buick is the same as the 307 version, I'd apprisiate it alot.
Unfortunately you got the pre-overdrive transmission. I dont know much about them. The 83 and later transmissions were modified 700R4's and are fairly durable. The weak link is the akward chain arrangement. If you find a Riviera with a 307, and its later than 83 (83-85) try to snag the transmission with it. I dont know what transmission is in your car but I'd be willing to bet its some sort of Th250, which is a light duty 3 speed. Edit: Did a little research and the only thing I could find was that the pre82 Rivieras either used a 350/375b/m38 derived transmission or a 400/375/m40 derived transmission. My bet would be that you have the lesser, 350/375b/m38 derived transmission.
Where are you located? I don't recall which transaxle came in those.....TH125, TH325?? The engine is mounted longitudinally right (north & south)?? There are 3 models you can find donor trannies - Eldorados, Toronados and Rivs.
Yeah, the engines in those cars are mounted the "right" way... with the pullys and such near the grill.
