Starter Selonoid Problem?

OK - After installing my new exhaust system on Thursday, I drove the car home that evening with no problems.

On Saturday, I drove back to Stage1 Automotive for a tailpipe adjustment. I pulled in front of Rob's shop and shut the car off. After talking with Rob (5 minutes), I tried to start the car and got a series of 'clicks'. I immediately retried and the car started right up. o No: The exhaust adjustment was performed and I moved the car out and shut it off. We started it 10 minutes later and took it for a ride to get food, where the car was shut off again in the parking lot. It started right up after five minutes and we drove back to Stage1 Automotive where we adjusted the throttle linkage and shut the car off again. I left 10 minutes later and the car started right up again.

Sunday, my boy (if you would believe) wanted to 'drive' the Buick. YES!!!! :TU: I started the car, pulled it out, put the top down, put the car seat in the back, and shut it off. Went inside to get my son ready (pants/shoes/water). we took a 15-20 minute cruise and ended up at my buddies house where I backed into his (downhill) driveway and shut it off. We talked for 5 minutes and it was getting chilly so I wanted to put the top up before leaving. I went to start the car and...nothing! I only noticed a draw on the battery (gauges move, brake/gen light dims). This continued for about 15 minutes. Finally, I was about to try popping the clutch in reverse to get the car started (I had only about 35 feet, but you have to try something). Wouldn't you know the car started on this last attempt? We got home, I put the car away, and shut it off. For giggles, I tried to start it and it started right away.

So...my theory is because of the ported manifolds, richer fuel mixture, and larger diameter exhaust pipes, the starter selonoid is (intermittently) getting too hot to start the car. I did see a heat shield while the car was on the lift. I'd assume it's an OEM starter/selonoid combination.

Does this sound like the problem? What can I do to insulate the selonoid from the temperatures?

Anyone have any ideas? Any other theories on what this could be?

TIA

 

If the car wasn't so nicely restored, Marco, I'd suggest a remote starter solenoid.

Yes, it does sound to me like the 'hot start' problem. I don't have a volt- or amp-meter in my car, however, so I couldn't say how much of a voltage drop I've seen when this happened to me. I bought a nice thick heat sheild from TA that made installing the starter a pain (dropped the starter off the block onto me face:gt: ) but it will fit with headers once you wrestle it in.

 

Try this Marco,

Take the nut and cable off of the big stud. There should be a jam nut holding the stud to the housing. Loosen the jam nut up and back it way off. The stud is caridged (square hole) into the selonoind housing. Push the stud straight into the housing and then twist it a half a turn and then pull it back out. Tighten up the jam nut and replace the cable. This will give you a brand new contact in the selonoid. This has save the day for quite a few friends while at the track and even work for Paul Pirnot at the Nat's this year.

Good luck

 

Thanks guys!

Shayne -
Is your solution a (hopefully) permanent fix? Could I possibly break anything? How far should the stud be pushed into the housing, and should I mark the 'starting point' for when I put the stud back? Could this be done without dropping the starter? Thanks!

 

Marco,

Permanent fix? If that's the problem then yes. It been awhile but, when the little ring thingy comes over and makes contact in the selonoid it makes an arc. Everytime this happens you loose a little of the metal on the stud. After awhile the contact just degrades enough that you start haveing an intermiten problem. The stud is just held in like a caridge bolt, so you just have to push it in a little. I'm no sure if you could do this on the car or not with your set up. I don't think I could on mine. We were able to get Pauls fixed without removeing it.

Any starter guru's out there can feel free to refine my post.

 

Marco,

I had a similar experience with my 68 Riviera. Every now and then the starter would not work. No click just large draw on the battery and no start. It happened mostly when hot so I thought for sure it was the hot start problem and I was ready to do the remote solenoid trick when it did it when almost cold. Took out the starter and fixed the solenoid contact wear that Shayne talks about. No change. Bought new reman starter and two months of everyday driving with not a single issue!

I think the old starter motor had a bad winding or worn brushes that acted up intermittently or only when hot. I also notice the new starter spins the motor over much faster than the old one ever did even when restarting a heat soaked motor.

Keith

 

Thanks Keith!

Just curious - how often did it happen, and how long did you need to wait before it started? I just find it strange that the 'issue' started after I changed my exhaust system, and has only occurred when hot (so far twice).

I agree that if Shayne's fix doesn't work, another starter/selonoid combination is needed. It's definitely worth a try.

 

Marco,

At first it was only when hot and maybe every 5th or 6th time. That progressed to almost every time when hot. Then maybe every tenth time when cold and every time hot. I still don't know what exactly failed, but the new one sure has been great!

I know a guy that runs an alternator/starter rebuild business that I might have look at the old one just to satisfy my curiosity about what was wrong. I am betting burned windings on a field coil.

Keith

 

I have not yet been able to get under the car and play with the solenoid carriage bolt. I'm looking at my Year One catalog, and 'NEW GM' solenoids are $33. 'AC Delco' solenoids are $30.

What's the difference between the two and how hard is it just to replace the solenoid? They also have a spring ($6) that states "Use for 'Heat Soak' problems". Is anyone familiar with these springs?

I may take this route, since I'm dropping the starter anyway. Thoughts or opinions welcome.

TIA

 

I have also had the problem, and found that adding a 12 guage wire to the solenoid post and running it to a HD push button solved the problem. The heavier wire will carry enough juice to kick the solenoid.

 

Thanks for all the replies everyone.

After being 'stuck' for a couple hours, it turns out the battery, not the starter was on it's way out. It finally gave up the ghost last Thursday.

Batteries are much easier to replace than starters :beer

Thanks again!