So a couple of years ago I had issues with starter clearances with the flexplate on Buick 455. On my back I could not figure it out. Actually reached out on this thing and got a lot of feedback. But honestly no exact cure. Apparently it was an issue for others. So the way at that time to fix it (on my back) was to fabricate a big aluminum 1/8 " shim to install in the starter to kinda push the bendix away from the flexplate. You can see it in the last 2 pictures. That 1/8 " shim bearly made it work. But I always knew that wasn't the real answer. So. Now that the engine is out on a stand I decided to experiment. I bought a Hays flexplate. And as you can see in the last 2 pictures. This Hayes flexplate absolutely is the fix. My old black flexplate (no idea who it's from. but it's black for whateverthat'sworth) was no good. I'm sharing a few pictures. Hope that it helps someone. Pretty sure that it's gonna work for me.
Memory is fuzzy, but in the not too distant past it was discovered that one of the aftermarket flexplates was manufactured incorrectly. One issue was counterweight on the wrong side (interfered with torque converter lugs), another was incorrect offset between crank flange and ring gear (I think). I'll search a bit, might help someone down the road, myself included. I have an old SFI plate on the shelf I'm thinking of using and need to verify this stuff. It might end up in the recycle bin depending on what I find out. Glad yours is sorted! Devon
Found this thread. FYI, JW is the flexplate supplier being discussed, not to be confused with Jim Weise. https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/jw-wheel-flywheel-weight-problem.327796/ Devon
I had a spacer made for mine as well..worked fine with my JW wheel....I would strongly suggest you replace those grade 8 bolts with starter bolts....those grade 8s WILL break and cause teeth wear Common issue with that plate tho
Yup, I had that issue with my original SFI flex plate. It wasn't a JW, but it caused the same problem. The ring gear was too close to the pinion. Destroyed 2 mini starters before I bought the Robb Mc starter. The Robb Mc starter uses a separate mounting block, so you can shim between that and the starter. That solved the problem. Years later, I bought another SFI flex plate with the correct offset ring gear. I was able to remove the shims on my Robb Mc starter and it has been fine ever since.
I'm also suspicious of the bolts holding the starter to the block. OTOH, I've only used an aftermarket starter like this one time, and on a 454. I removed the generic bolts the engine came with, and installed ARP starter bolts suitable for an aftermarket "mini" starter. No problems since then. I don't expect the generic bolts would break--but they don't appropriately locate the starter, so the starter can shift under load leading to misalignment/tooth wear/noise, and in extreme cases, starter housing, or block breakage.
I learned the lesson in my 20s when I bought me a Tilton super starter.. all $300 worth things were expensive 20yrs ago ha....but used grade 8s...yea sheared them off with just a handful of starts....the knurled section is there for a very important purpose to Register into the socket if you will of the holes in the block....anything else is a no go
Thx hugger. I heard a bunch of different things back then about a year ago. But again- on your back everything sucks. Especially trying to figure out clearances on stuff. What a difference on a engine stand. I'm pretty sure that I can take that spacer out actually. Pretty happy now.
Hey Larry. Great to hear from you. Yes. I remember when you wrote back then about changing the starter. I wound up as I said fabricating a big shim out of 1/8" aluminum. Plus buying special longer bolts. You can see it in a couple of my pictures. It looks like the Hays flexplate will now work. There is enough clearance that I will now remove the fabricated spacer to get more bite from the starter bendix to the flexplate. Thx.
Typically shear strength goes up as tensile strength goes up, so you'd think going with a grade 8 bolt would be an improvement. BUT, the downfall with even a generic grade 8 bolt has already been mentioned above...starter bolts are designed with that "register" feature that removes clearance between the bolt shank (non threaded part of the bolt) and the block, and the starter female bolt holes. That knurled, close fit area of the bolt actually goes into the block a bit, kinda like "pinning" the starter and block together with almost no clearance thanks to that knurl. Without that knurl, there will be clearance between the bolt shank and the starter holes, and forces during cranking may try (and may succeed) in bending the bolt ever so slightly which destroys the co-linearity of the starter holes with the block holes. This means the starter can twist or even rock off the block as much as the bending bolt allows, even if torqued correctly. So, I'd take a lower grade, properly designed starter bolt over a higher grade generic bolt any day for this job. Better yet, get higher grade, properly designed starter bolts, again already mentioned. Good illustration and brief writeup from https://www.brakepartsinc.com/ regarding a starter upgrade and the importance of using correct fasteners: See https://www.brakepartsinc.com/dam/jcr:90f61046-c642-4b19-a850-96df8b09fdd8/6) Technical Service Bulletin - February 2016.pdf Devon
I mean. Grade 8 bolts are not good enough for flexplate bolts. That they will shear off. Is that what I am hearing?
No, not really. The problem is that casual words like "strength" get tossed around without specifying what kind of strength. and on top of that, some standards capture one type of strength but not necessarily another. ASTM specifies tensile strength and yield strength, but not shear. So, we go to Industrial Fastener Institute which states that “As an empirical guide, shear strengths of carbon steel fasteners may be assumed to be approximately 60 percent of their specified minimum tensile strengths. For example, an SAE grade 5 hex cap screw has a specified minimum tensile strength of 120,000 psi. Therefore, for design purposes, its shear strength could be reasonably assumed to be 70,000 psi.” So, given that, as grade number increases so does tensile strength by ASTM and SAE, and IFI says with increase in tensile, shear strength also increases. Clear as mud, isn't it? In general, grade number increase means tensile strength increase and means shear strength increase...IF applied at specified torque. Note that this applies to reusable fasteners, I'm not sure about single use fasteners, which can only do their job once (when torqued as specified) and are discarded after their first removal. For what it's worth, I used grade 8 on torque converter bolts because I had them. I have simply reused what I think are factory grade 5 between flexplate and crankshaft. No prob with either. Devon
Grade 8s are fine for the flex plate bolts...BUT they aren't available in the correct length without using a washer.....stock or ARP are the popular option....I like the ARP as it has an 11/16 head spreading the clamping area.
Discussion is about the starter bolts. See here for fun facts about starter bolts: https://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/starter-bolts.326117/#post-2729070
