I would appreciate some opinions about why my "non-running as yet" '62 LeSabre would crank over one day but not the next. Originally I pulled the plugs, sprayed some WD40 in the cylinders, pulled the distributor and ran the oil pump with a drill, and was able to turn the engine over with a socket and breaker bar (after 25 years of sitting). Encouraged, I cleaned up a few more things and a week later tried spinning the beast with the starter, still without the plugs. It slowly turned over about 4-5 revs before I stopped. I tried it again and it cranked over another 4-5 before slowing almost to a halt. I disconnected the battery and stopped at that point since I was out of time. A week passes. Suspecting that the battery might be low, I threw the charger on and it pulls 5 amps, so I let it charge up again. Being obviously overconfident, I put in new plugs, connect up the ps and gen belts, ran a temporary fuel line to fresh gas, and button everything up expecting to get a pop or belch or something when I hit the key. But instead I get a big "THONK" and nothing. The starter engages but will not turn the engine over. Since the charger is still on the posts, I see that the battery is back to pulling 5-6 amps again. I disconnect the charger and try the headlamps. Look OK. Keeping them on, I hit the key... "THONK" and lights out. Let go of the 'Start' position and the lights come on again. So... Do I have an underpowered battery? (new Champion (Kmart) with 525 Cold cranking amps at 0 degrees F). Its physical size matches the old one but I don't know if that old battery was right as there is still a lot of room on the battery tray. A faulty starter which is pulling too much juice? Undersized battery cables? (new from Kmart - 8 gauge) An engine which has just seized? Thanks in advance for any of your thoughts on this.
I agree with Ted. Try cleaning the battery posts and connectors with a post brush and spray some contact cleaner on it. If the battery has also been sitting 25 years, buy a new one. Hahahaha. Dan
I had an engine a few years ago that I tried the same thing with with the same results. Turned over at first but locked up after a few revolutions. Turns out the rings had scraped rust from the cylinders which finally built up on top of the ring lands enough to lock up the engine.Broke a couple of pistons too..:ball: Hope thats not what you find.
engine will it turn over by hand? If so its electrical. If not....see Al's comment above! Note - pulling 5 to 6 amps charging a battery is not much. Sounds like your battery is charged enough. Is the charger hooked up directly to the battery terminals or clamped onto the wires? Although with new wires and battery, you should have a good connection there. Did you clean the ground when you put in the new cable? - Bill
Dan's comment reminded me of trying to start my 65 Riviera after rebuilding it myself. It turned over, then died-The battery was pretty new when I took the car apart, but by the time I got to start it-3 years later-the battery was toast. It was the last thing I checked of course. Buy new, eliminate unknowns if possible. Best of luck!
Clarification Thanks everyone for your input on this so far. Just to clarify a couple of things: The battery is only a month old and has been on the charger briefly a couple of times to keep it up. Both the pos and neg cables are new and all connections were brightened up with fine sandpaper before connecting at battery, block, and relay. However, I did not examine the existing cable connection at the starter end from the relay block. I turned the engine over about a dozen revs with the breaker bar before trying with the starter. Next steps: I'm going to drop the belts, pull the plugs and see if I can turn her with the bar again, hoping I don't have what Al described...
The battery strikes me as being too small - seems like big blocks like 800 - 1000 CCA. Battery cables are too small. Seems like OEM was 4 awg, and big blocks like 2 awg, especially if the timing is advanced (distirbutor is curved). Will it still turn over with a breaker bar and 1 1/8" socket on the balancer bolt?
Oh, CRAP !! Well folks, I pulled the plugs and got the rest of the plumbing out of the way so I could try to turn her over with the socket and breaker bar. It is Definitely seized !! :ball: :ball: I might try throwing a few tablespoons of ATF in each hole and try again in a day or so. But for now, it's Miller time !!
bummer Too Bad, I was hoping for the cables!!!! ou: Try turning it backwards too after soaking the ATF, nut buster, and anything else you can pour in....:laugh: Work it back and forth to grind up the rust...nothing to lose! Good luck! :TU: - Bill
Another thought I rigged up my compressor hose to a piece of 1/4 brass tubing about a foot long, corked up the pressure to 150 psi, put on some goggles, stuck the tubing down each plug hole and blasted flakes of crud out of each cylinder, some more than others. I know that for some cylinders the flakes of the rust and carbon went out the exhaust valve, and for others, the intake. I was thinking of filling each cylinder, one at a time, with something like Marvel Mystery Oil or perhaps ATF, letting it set for a while and then vacuuming it out (hopefully taking more of the crud with it). :Brow: Any suggestions as to if Marvel MO or AFT would be better? Also, how long can I leave the cylinder filled without too much leaking past the rings? 10 ~ 15 minutes, one or two days?? Thanks
Dennis, I know you don't want to hear it, but you really need to remove the heads at the very least. Packed rust around the rings is never gonna blow out. Just pull the heads off and find out whats going on in there. Been there, done that....o No: By the way, the last nailhead 401 I had that was locked upped, turned out to have frozen wrist pins. They dried out after 20 yrs. in a garage, but as soon as I had them out and into parts cleaner, they freed right up.
Thanks Al for sharing your experience. You are correct in that I have NO desire :gt: to open up the engine. Not that I haven't done that kind of work before, a long time ago, it's just that I don't feel that I have the resources (space, time, money, etc) to go down that path today. Having said that, let me ask a follow-on question. If the problem is heavy rust scraped from the walls during the two dozen revs its made so far (manual & w/starter), which has now packed itself into the pistons' ring grooves, how much can really be done from the top of the cylinder? Aren't we really talking about pulling the engine and then the rods and pistons in order to clean this crud out? ou:
Try pouring coke a cola in through the spark plug holes, seriously, I have seen this work. the usuall method is to pour some in each cylinder and leave for 24 hours then turn by hand once free move the pistons up a bit then pour in some more, wait 24 hours, etc, keep going until it turns over easy by hand. This is not a joke, it does work. again what have you got to loose, once motor is turning freely change the oil (as the coke will seep into the sump) and start it up. To show how this works put a rusty nut and bolt (or whatever) submerged in coke a cola overnight and see the result in the morning. Once you see the results it might put you off drinking the stuff! good luck, Louis :jd:
I gotta go with Al on this one!! Better to be safe than sorry. I think his analysis is probably right on....sorry.:ball: Not only are the rings most likely full of crud....those wrist pins are probably gummed up or rusted.ou:
Tear down info Okay fellas, say that I was interested enough in "The Barge" to go through such labor. Where does one get information about how not to screw up tearing the engine down? I mean things like if the crank has to be pulled or not, drive the pistons out from the bottom to the top after cutting away any cylinder ridge, or drive them down and out, etc.??? And what about reassembly info like head bolt torque specs, use of a spray sealant on the head gaskets or not, etc.?? Man, you guys are trying to suck me in deeper water than I would normally go... Really, I don't know of any reliable Buick engine rebuilders in my area who I could call upon with confidence for either work or advice.
nailhead Dennis - There are several nailhead guys on the board that can help...and the shop manual will have the specs. You should be able to pull the pistons in the car without pulling the crank. Buy a keg and some pizza and I'm sure you will attract some help from the Buick faithful :Brow: I agree with Al, although I also love the "tricks", the right way will be best in the loonnngggg run! :TU: You don't want to get it running and 6 months later have to find a new block/engine! ou: - Bill
I just recently tore my nailhead down, and i removed all the pistons before removing the crank. But i had the motor out of the car, plus when you are that far you should at least put new bearings in it. Mine is being bored, crank ground, new cam, etc etc... BTW, this was my first ever Nailhead to fool with, i have had many .......cough cough...small block chevys.....cough cough....apart however.
Ok...so i know i'm posting on this a lil late.....but jus incase anyone else has this problem...try this..... Drain oil from sump....flush out with diesel..rreplace sump bolt....fill block COMPLETELY with diesel...Leave block to 'soak' for approx a wk er so... then every other day fer like a week use a breaker bar on the block to turn it over....once it starts turning easier than before, drain block, flush out entire block with a cheap light weight oil...refill to measure and get set to fire her up.... this is a lil smokey...but it will always Unseize a block.. and atleast make it easier to disassemble.
That's not such a crazy idea!! A guy in town I've known since I was a kid, pulls the plugs and fills each cylinder with a half & half mixture of MM oil and kerosene. He lets it all soak in for a week or so. Then turns the engine over as much as he can, fills up the cylinders that need it, and keeps repeating this procedure until the engine turns over fully. Usually works too. Worse case scenerio, you've got to pull the engine and disassemble anyways....at least now, you've got a cleaner bottom end!!!
