Been beat like a dead horse,..there are two sides But 1 if it's done a certain way its absolutely no issue and 2 it's only dishonest if it isn't disclosed upon selling
Take Mark worman or whatever his name is from graveyard carz,.. hell he has a TV show building cars around data tags and vin plates
Thanks for confirming the original color. Only one built in that combination of Hunter Green with black top. That’s one of my favorite colors on a ‘72. Sad ending but sometimes they are just too far gone to justify saving and doing anything else could turn into another legal nightmare for you. I know of another ‘72 Stage 1 convertible that’s in similar condition and rotting away.
Fact. The Hunter Green Stage 1 convertible is too far gone to restore, and it is very hard to argue otherwise once you read the OPs description. Fact. A V8Buick member suggests cutting the VIN out for the reason of "building" a car around it. Fact. The OP rejects the idea and reports he personally has had a very bad experience with a tampered VIN. He would never do that to anyone including himself. Fact. A V8Buick member says there is nothing wrong with it if done a certain way and disclosed to the next owner. They do it all the time on TV. Hats off to you Andrew! Moving the Stage 1 drive-train to another car without moving the V.I.N. to your Skylark (or any other body) is the right thing to do. If not from an ethical standpoint, in all likelihood a financial one as well. I am sorry that someone who I normally appreciate on this site can be this misguided, especially on a thread where you've just shared your own personal story of someone else's deceit. The horse has been beaten over and over again, because, unfortunately there is vocal group on here that continues to maintain wrong doing is not only acceptable, it is the norm. Sad day indeed.
I just see it differently is all,..being that I do Collision work we replace vin stamped components DAILY,..one is no different than another IMO,..I just swapped a frame under a salvage title 2006 Z71 to resale,.its a 82k mile rust free truck no way in hell I was letting get parted out. I've had to replace cowl sections and door pillars,.dash pads with vins attached. I've clipped a few car over the years etc etc all legally and ethically I'ts very wrong to buy the rivets I posted and go swapping vins a data plates around for sure. But if you were to remove a large a section as possible and move a donor body under it,.you've done nothing no different than cutting all the rusty stuff off and "saving" it. Which no one would care about and even commend one on doing so. Would I go around proclaiming it to be the as born with body, no I wouldn't I would document the process with pics and be up front with it. What the next fella does is up to him. Doing so would maybe impact the value to some people but since we're talking about a Buick GS, it's a rat hole anyway so that isn't a concern. I would be amazed if any LE department anywhere would give a flip about some guys swapping parts around on 50yrold cars that's been paid for for eons and swapped hands more times than girls named Nikki ha,.all they care about are seatbelts,speeding and DUIs and ritefully so
Fact: Rivets should not be drilled out with the intent of swapping tags. Fact: You and many others have clipped cars and replaced frames legally for years. Fact: You see nothing wrong with a donor body moved under the previously cut out "vin and data plate area". I accept that you and others have repaired collision damage to the point of replacing frames, permanently replacing VIN stamped components, and even clipping vehicles in a legal way. However, replacing VIN stamped components (i.e. trunk opening lip) placed there for theft recovery purposes has no bearing on the discussion as far as I'm concerned. Questions for you sir... In the picture given by the OP, what sort of condition does the cowl area appear to be in? How can you justify the fact that you find drilling out rivets and moving tags to another body (aka swapping) is unacceptable, yet it is perfectly alright to cut out an area around the VIN and cowl tag and weld that into another body? Aren't you in essence doing the exact same thing? It is certainly going to be harder for the next guy to pick it out if it's done this certain way, isn't it? See you how said "move a donor body underneath it"? The VIN and cowl tag area are not self supporting. Mentally you are somehow making your physical action of cutting out and rewelding the metal acceptable. The VIN and cowl tag can't levitate in mid air magically while you move a donor body underneath them. You know what you are doing is wrong to the point where you can't even type what you're planning to accomplish. I'm no Freud, but do you see my point? The vehicles you repair from collision damage to the extent the frame and even entire clips need replaced, will the title perhaps reflect something other than normal? Does it matter whether a vehicle is 6 months old or 6 years old? The vehicles you repair from collision damage, are they late model and have insurance companies involved and records kept like Carfax, where a subsequent owner can usually see the vehicle has been seriously damaged to the point of needing a frame or clip? When there is a salvage/rebuilt title or a negative Carfax involved in the sale of a vehicle, is there a likelihood the value of the resale is diminished? What is your intent when you move the rebody under the levitating VIN? Why not just leave the VIN that was already part of the replacement body in its rightful place? Is there a difference between your everyday rebuilds of late model cars and someone who takes years to painstakingly restore a GS that was in poor condition? While you would disclose the rebody in a future sale, is it possible that some future owner maybe disappointed, or worse, possibly uniformed of the matter until the next owner brings it to his attention? Will your swapped bodied car have a title marked rebuild? Carfax? Anything at all to legally denote what you've done? Graveyard Cars. What did they decide with regard to this Daytona and why?
Please dont think all cars that have had MAJOR collision damage are documented,..I've bought many "clean" title totaled vehicles repaired and sold them. I've always disclosed what I done,.as to what the next owner does is on him,..you can only do what you can we can't live other's lives. like I said this has been argued for years and years,..but based on your stance they shouldn't be allowed to sell any upper cowl panels,.and dash panels,.dash pads,.door pillar sections,.Apillars,.trunk rails or firewall panels,..but they do. But as I mentioned once you swap a frame you've done nothing no worse,..its just as major component as the body is in every regard. So to condemn one and be fine with other just never made sense to me. To answer your question regarding what's different between cutting the vin area out and removing the tag,.that's simple,.most state laws im aware of say not to tamper with the Vin,..unless for needed repair purposes. Rust is certainly a needed repair I mean once a vehicle is over 10yrs old In SC you can legally change the odometer ,..they sold them for yrs and yrs at salvage yards before they became linked to Ecu obviously.
I like that you work with your hands, and many of your replies, but not these. Words are are picked apart and intent is avoided. You did reignite my thoughts about this topic so I came up with a great solution! Thank you. See the Bench.
