Ok, i'd previously stated that the 455 im rebuilding was having some major problems. Couldn't turn the crank once pistons were torqed down... Turns out 2 caps were mismatched... Pretty sure that was the problem, They didn't match from the side, and were hard to install over studs. Once switched, the Crank turns ok. Question is for those of you who have rebuilt buick 455's. Cylinders and pistons .030 overbore, also used rope seals.. Poured oil on rope seal to help break it in and reduce friction. Initial turn when sitting for a while is real tuff. once started it turns a little easier. using breaker bar on Balancer bolt. Is That normal that it is still a little stiff to spin. However it does spin easier once started.(makes sence to me.) Like I said, it takes quite a bit of muscle to get it started, and not so bad after that....... I know a starter and flywheel will have much more leverage than me, Thanks guys.... David Ps. here's a shot of the timing cover all cleaned and painted..
David- When I re-did mine a few years back, everyone told me how much it might be hard to turn the engine by hand, and how it would over-heat when I first started it, have buckets of water ready to pour on the engine. Sounded iffy to me, that advice. They didn't do this when new was my feeling, why should it do it now On your main cap problem, glad you caught that :TU: getting the caps on without forcing them can be a pain. I have one, my #4, that will only go on if it is perfectly aligned at 90* 89.99999* isn't good enough. Took a while to get. It comes right off but is a bear to get back in I chamfered the very edges of the main cap ends slightly with a file. that helped a bit. What I'm concerned about now in your case is that maybe you used a block of wood and a mallet to seat the caps and one might be not quite right. That might screw up how the bearing is sitting. they can be a pain When I did mine, I could simply grab the flexplate and spin the engine. it resisted me a lot, but once I got it going, it spun freely I wonder if some of your machine work is simply a bit tight or if you have a bearing or two that might be a bit thick. Hopefully, your crank is not bowed slightly, which is I guess the worst case scenrio I can imagine right now the rope seals in mine were not an issue. they sealed great, never leaked, and didn't impede the crank. I didn't have to oil them during assembly but I did have the luxury of a good 455 building book and the chassis manual at the time How did you install the front rope seal? Describe the procedure you used to install it
Mains weren't problem My main caps were fine.. 2 rod caps got switched.??? not sure how, myself or Machine shop? You said you could turn the crank by hand with the flexplate, no tools? Man That sounds too easy, much easier than mine.. Mine takes lots of effort for first turn, but after that it turns a bit easier, still drags a little. I figgure the rings are honing the cylinders a bit causing drag. Like I said I'm using a breaker bar... Will it be easier to turn with flexplate on? Would you suggest undoing main caps and making sure Bearings are still located correctly.. My mains are all numbered on top, and they all droped right on no problems. Main bearings are still stock size, new but stock. Rod Cap Bearings are .001 over... The crank was just polished. There was slight pitting, very slight on crank where Rods go. Suggested by Machinest after Micing crank to go .001. Once I get it spinning , there's still a good amount of drag, but it spins all the way over. Once it sits, the first turn is pretty tuff to get moving, then it gets easier again...?????????????? Everything seems to be assembeled correctly.
Have you tried turning it by the flexplate?. Put on a pair of gloves, grab the flexplate and spin. I can do this under the car, too, if the plugs are out and the torque converter's unbolted. Neat trick, not tools, and I'm not the world's strongest man. 3rd, maybe 4th, tops:laugh: Let's back up. What was done to the engine, and why?
this is whats been done/ 1974 Buick 455/Stage 1 heads. Heads Have been totaly redone, new springs, Stage 1 valves, etc. Block was cleaned, and bored .030, had some pitting in cylinders. Obviously .030 pistons, Chromolly Rings. Thats about it. Now i'm just putting the new stuff back together.... Oh ya, new timing chain, A much torquier Cam from Comp. So far Crank and Pistons are back in... which is where i'm at today........ Engine will go in my 1970 buick to replace 70' 350.4 engine.
Nothing was done to the crankshaft at all? Did you have it checked for staightness at least? Nice solid work on the block, but it seems like not much was done to the crank
David, If you still have the engine on a stand, get rid of the rope seals. Get neoprene from www.postonbuick.com Rope seals were a bad idea from day 1 and you need to use modern technology. I think the both of them are only $20-25. Well worth the money and won't take you a few mins to install them while the engine is on a stand.
Crank Work I had the machinist check out the crank. It Miked out fine. He did polish it and said there was very minor pitting in one spot. Wouldn't be a problem tho. He suggested leaving it and just polishing it up. Would the Rope seal after sitting a while in the engine on the stand cause initial turn to be much harder to turn than once you get it spining. Besides wouldn't every thing get worn in a bit after first startup. Just wondering... I know when its running everything will be getting oil regularly. I have been oiling it everytime i decide to turn it.. Also once installed, Heat will play a role in things won't it.... Like i said i'm still learning. My brother is a machanic, and He thinks its fine.. if it turns whith everything torqed down(mains and rods). He's no Buick specialist and he admits it.. We've called 4 machine shops and explained how we've assembeled it so far and they all say that with the .030 overbore, and the size of pistons combined with rope seals, it would be fairly hard to turn over... Maybee i'm making something outa nothin, but i cant afford to put it together wrong.. This is my one shot deal... Been scraping money over past 2 years just to get where I'm at.... i've got about $2000 into machining and parts so far, Not much compared to some i know, but thats 3 house payments............... Lotta overtime and a few really small grociery lists is what it took to get my engine to today..... sad i know, but life isn't cheep, then again neither are Buick parts.
It's intially hard to turn because the rings aren't seated yet. That's normal I have to disagree with the "hard to turn is normal" opinion. "Hard to turn" might be OK, but it should not be normal. Your "hard to turn" and my "hard to turn" might be different things, too Do you have reference material for this engine while you're building it? A rebuilding manual of some sort, maybe? Did you check all the machinist's work in regards to bearing clearance? Machinsits are human. I would check with plastigauge. Ask your brother where to get some in your tolerance range
before rods here's the block just before installing rods and pistons. all cleaned up and ready for assembly. Pistons are now in and ya know the rest.
What are you using for assembly lube, 30 weight oil? I don't see any lube on the engine, it's usually messy. Are you using some type of assembly lube or just heavy oil? I'd recommend a good assembly lube like Lubriplate strongly See the messy white goo in this pic? That's my assembly lube. Horribly messy wonderful stuff. It's cheap insurance in my opinion:
here's all the new stuff heres where my money goes.. wish it was all on and running... urggggg Patience is killing me....
Lubriplate is excellent. Make sure you lube the cylinder walls with 30w oil. I use a non-lint rag soaked with oil and wipe down the cylinder walls from top to bottom. With no rods connected to the crank, the crank should basically free-wheel. With all rods and pistons connected, you should encounter a slight hi-torque moment and then spin easily.
Thanks guys first off let me say thanks you guys for helping me out... i'm only 25, and don't claim to know everything... As for crank turning... I am using actual lube, red stuff in small squirt bottle, used that to wipe down cylinder walls before puting pistons in. also used on bearings. My brother got this for me... Along with lube, using small oil can to squirt crank and pistons each time I turn it... then i cycle it over a few times to recoat cylinders... Nice to know initial turn is hard, cause it is..... as for after that, there is a harder torque spot, then it cycles half way then repeats, I can get half a turn no problem, then move the breaker bar. after first hard turn(initial one), it turns pretty smoothe, still a little tension, but not bad. ...... Hopefully all is well, feeling a little better about it i guess... thanks again guys.. I live in Minnesota, would be real cool to meet yall somewhere some day and let ya see my ride and the engine you helped me build :TU:
Whaw. That engine looks rusty. As if water have been dripping from above. I would never put an engine like that together without removing the crank again and clean out the block completly. Have a look at Chris's block. Spotless. That's the way it should look. You have to find a dry, dustfree AND clean place to do an overhaul. The assembly is not that difficult, but with water/humidity and dust present, you can just take your performance parts and throw them out the window. :ball: Sorry mate. When it comes to rope seals, we are using them on some of the Diesels engines we overhaul in my workshop. A propper istalled rope seal are in my opinion better than the modern seals, however, they are a pain to install. They do not create a grove in the crankshaft, as a normal "lip seal" do after long running hours. To install we use to leave the rope in 10 grade oil over night, thereafter work it down in the grove with shaft of a wooden hammer or ...., and than cut the end as tight as possible. Per. :beer
Yes-I see rust on the outside-as long as it's not on the inside-no problem. A clean assembly area IS important. I see the block heater-yup, a Minnesota boy-I use the heaters in my stuff especially good to preheat before firing after a long sit-temp gauge is usually at about 125 after a few hours=engine is happy. I am running many (some very old) rope rear main seals-not much leaking-what can I say? My wife's Jeep and my tta are the dribblers-one of each type. I like the idea of the neoprene seals, but the ropes haven't been an issue for me (it is somewhat of an art to install them correctly, however). On turning an assembled V8 I am looking for about 25 lbs torque to 'break free'-turn by hand with only the crank-I like the idea to take the extra time to do the rope after all main bearings are done and checked for good fit-good luk
The thing that I am concerned about is that the block has been bored but it doesnt seem to have been cleaned thoroughly afterwards.I cant believe a machine shop would send it down the road like that. I know its a pain. But if I were you I would stop . Pull it apart . Clean it completely with hot soapy water and start again. Make sure its completly dry ( blow dry with a compressor if possible ) Id hate to see you spend all this time and money again if something goes wrong. These buicks are tempermental anyway-- proper assembly is pretty vital. Are there any members near David in MN ? Maybe one of the guys near you can lend a hand. Good luck George in DC
Well-I'm down I94 200 miles-glad to help if I am needed-and sure, it would be a better deal if the engine looked nicer with new freeze/core/frost whatever plugs new paint,(funds a tad limited) but I can't tell if the oil galley plugs were R+R and the internals properly cleaned or not. There certainly are some untidy mochinists out there, but hard to see anybody letting boring bar cuttings-from a .030 cut go anywhere (lifter bores then oil passages) they wanted, and say 'that's fine-bolt it together'-if so, he'd be gone as none of the engines would hold up. Agree-the 400/430/455 engines are touchy-
