Roller or flat tappet cams? shop won't guarantee flat tappet...

So finally dropped off the block and all components for my engine build.
Here is the link to my post of the proposed build.

http://www.v8buick.com/index.php?threads/72-455-build-compatibility-and-clearances.392011/

First thing the shop says is that they won't do flat tappet cams anymore. Then he said since I already have the new cam, he would, but would not guarantee the motor at all. This is a pretty "bigger" well known shop recommended by other board members so was surprised... he said people using lack of zinc oils and that zinc additives would be banned soon....

Seems odd to me... I do not want to spend the money on another cam.... I will order the recommended lifters from TA...

Thoughts?

 

There are many reports of flat tappet cams failing lately. I don't blame the shop for their position on warranty and cams

 

I wouldn't use a flat tappet w/o having lifters (properly) reground & dry testing/optimizing the spin on ea.

 

You could have the cam and lifters Rockwell hardness tested and if they come up to spec, install it and run it.

I too have seen many cam failures due to defective heat treating processes. So I understand why many engine shops will not provide a warranty.
Out of respect and one of the most professional engine builders on the planet, I would ask JW what he would recommend and go with what he says. Vet

 

Are roller cam cores even available? Feel like I’ve been reading about everyone being out of cores for a while?

 

I forgot to add, I have seen where some cam lobes didn't have enough angle ground into them to even spin the lifters.
I've offended wondered if these cams and lifters are foreign manufactured? Vet

 

I believe the roller cam cores are on perpetual back order. I haven't had an issue with a flat tappet cam. I follow the break in procedure precisely and run good oil. I wouldn't be scared of it.

 

Who did you take this thing to?

 

I get their position....but politely tell them there is no other option for the 455

No shop I'm aware of offers a warranty on a performance engine anyway

Just make sure you get a hardned foot lifter...not sure what TA is selling rite now....I just ordered some AC delcos for a build...machine quality is ehhhh.....ordering crower cam savers for my GSX engine

 

There's been issues with flat tappet cams since the early 2000s. It's not the cams, it's the low zinc content oils. I wiped 3 cams in the early 2000s for my GN because the oil issues weren't really known yet. Got pissed and parked the car. Plan on finishing up the roller cam conversion in it.

The 455 that's in my 66, I also put it together back in the mid 2000s but didn't install it in the car until 2017. I used high zinc break-in oil and the old original weak valve springs to break the motor/cam in with for a couple hundred miles. I then switched to the TA Stage1 valve springs and (knock on wood) haven't had any problems.

Use a good break-in procedure, break-in oil and later a Brad Penn oil or equivalent and you shouldn't have any problems.

 

Weller Machine in Hamburg NY (formerly Klispies Sales & Service). The new owner had worked there a long time and took over. Impressive shop compared to what's around here.

 

I called TA and they said they only sell Johnson 1405J lifters, she said they sell them almost every day "literally" and have not heard of any issues. I trust them and I had my 350 rebuilt 4 years ago and no issues with a flat tappet cam and lifters from TA....... motor still ran string when I sold it last year.

 

I can see where they wouldn't guarantee the cam/lifters but the rest of the engine would still have to prove the cam/lifters caused a greater failure.

Maybe it is time to find another shop or have them assemble the short block and you finish it?

 

If the Cam and lifter disintegrate.. Were do you think the metal shaving go??? Hint all over the inside of the block... The filter is useless at that point..

 

This is the big reason I bought a NOS old Kenne Bell Cam and some older NOS lifters as all the new stuff seems like a crap shoot on if it will hold up or not. I think I have a better chance of older stuff holding up but still nervous.

 

The shop told you their stance on flat tappet cams, I’d be surprised if they didn’t have you sign something stating “no warranties expressed or implied on flat tappet cam/lifter failures”
I’d rather the shop be up front and honest like that instead of pretending all is well.
The final decision lyes on you, the customer.

 

I know the shop. Hopefully they are better than the last time I took something there.

 

There has been a sharp decline in lifter quality since 2020. You have engines that aren’t making it off the dyno,and these are at top-tier engine builders. A lot of them have followed suit and only install roller cams now,due to less issues and failures. I recently needed some solid flats and sourced an older set that was still new,but I generally run rollers in everything. Some of the newer rollers are having issues as well,collapsing,so it’s gotten to the point where it’s a solid roller lifter on a hyd roller cam with the lash set at zero. Done.

 

I worked there 20 years ago under the previous owner and have been using them exclusively for several builds since. I have an IHC engine there now that will be my first engine with Rob's ownership, we'll see how it goes. They are truly a full service machine shop.