$#% Rhodes Lifters can make your cam seem flat?

Anyone else have Rhodes lifters in their BBB? When I rebuilt the 430 in my GS back in the early 1980s, Kenne Bell recommended using them if you were going to install certain cams, such as the Window Rattler. Reason was that at low RPMs and street driving, they would make the cam act more "tame" but at high RPM's they would pump up and you'd get the benefits of your high-lift or long-duration cam, IIRC. So that's what I did. Recently I fired up the engine after 20 years of sitting (I would crank it over every 6 months to keep it from seizing). I had it running moderately well but it acted like it was missing on a cylinder or 2. Ignition testing showed that all the plugs were firing.

I let it sit for a few weeks and then tried trouble shooting it again. It backfired and either wouldn't run, or it would run very badly. It seemed like the timing was way off, but no amount of messing with the distributor helped. I wondered if I had somehow installed the strib 180 degrees off, but compression tests suggested I had everything right. Then I realized that it was showing compression on BOTH the compression stroke AND the intake or exhaust stroke. #1 cylinder was basically running with both valves closed all the time.

That's when I got a sick feeling that the cam had somehow gone flat, from cranking over the years without fully pressurizing the oil system. I removed the left valve cover and sure enough, when cranking the engine, neither valve on #1 was moving at all. Not a good feeling when you see that.

It occurred to me that another possibility was the lifters were collapsed and not pumping up, which might keep the pushrods from rocking the rocker arms. So as one last experiment, I changed the oil (the old oil was a year old but had about 1 hour of running on it) and then I built a pressurizer out of a spare distributor, which I should have done 20 years ago. After pressuring it up, I cranked the engine, again with the valve cover off, and to my relief the valvetrain was working like it should. I put everything back together and the engine fired up and runs pretty much like I remember it running 20 years ago.

Does this make sense? Did I correctly figure out what had happened?

 

You could just as easily (especially after 20 years) have a stuck valve that has nothing to do with the lifters. pull the valve covers and watch the valvetrain action. make sure all valves return to fully closed.

 

I ran Rhoads lifters in my wagon, never had any problems. That car ran 11.37 lifting at the 1000' ft mark(no roll bar).

 

Thanks, Larry (and the rest of you, too, I will respond to you in a minute).

I think you're right. When I was just cranking the engine without pre-pressurizing it, I probably didn't get enough pressure to one or more lifters and if the valves don't open, she ain't gonna run so well.

And as for bearings, I installed whatever Kenne-Bell recommended when I rebuilt the engine in the 80s. If the TA bearings with grooves are an improvement on the Clevites or whatever I installed, then I may be starving that side.

 

Thanks for the idea. I guess that could have been the problem, but it was weird to crank the engine and see BOTH valves on #1 not moving. I didn't look at the passenger side, but on the driver's side, the other 3 cylinders seemed to be working. For whatever reason, the problem is now gone (hopefully for good) and she runs okay! SO glad to learn I hadn't ruined the Window Rattler. I don't wanna tear the engine apart again.

 

Dang! If I can get mine to do that, I sure won't gripe about the lifters!

 

Yes, they are interesting cams. When I tore my engine apart in the 80s, I found that a previous owner had done some serious mods to it, some good and some kinda sketchy. One thing: They'd put adjustable pushrods and aluminum (or titanium) valve retainers in it, probably because they'd milled and decked things to extremes, to get high compression, so stock pushrods may have been too long to work. I think my rebuild went back to non-adjustables--I stacked head gaskets to put some space back between the heads and the block, and to lower the compression a bit.

As for rockers, yes, I went with KenneBell rollers, which still look like new.

 

I ran rhodes in mine years ago with no issues. Keep in mind these don't pump, they only bleed down less. At idle there is more time to bleed off than at 5000 rpms

 

Your scenario sounds about right.. every time you turn over a hydraulic lifter engine, without it running to supply oil pressure to the lifters, they will bleed down a little more.. and even more so with those high bleed rhoads lifters.

Once you spun the oil pump, and repressurized the engine, the lifters fill up, and work as they should.

Carry on..

JW

 

Thanks for that info, Larry. One bad thing about NOT waiting until this century to rebuild an engine is that now there are fixes that didn't exist back in the olden days. Plus, some of the old fixes are discovered to be not so great, such as the high-volume oil pump...which I of course installed because at the time it was deemed to be a good idea.

P.S.--if I ever tear down my engine again, TA bearings are definitely going in.

 

Thanks, Ben. Now that I have most of the bugs worked out, the engine is running pretty good! It fires right up, without a choke, just like it used to in the 80s. I am looking forward to actually putting enough hours on it to get it fully broken in. When I put it into storage in the 80s, it only had a few hours on the new parts.

 

Thanks, Jim. The wisdom of the experienced here has helped me a lot over the years, and moreso now that I am working on my car more after 35 years of letting it sit.

 

I would be looking into that as well. I wonder if those lifters can be rebuilt? I would be tempted to swap in a new set of lifters.

 

Right now it's running pretty good so I'm just gonna keep my fingers crossed and not let the engine sit for more than a month without actually firing it up to operating temperature. I wouldn't be opposed to installing new Rhoads lifters (I got the spelling right that time) if I need to, but I am a bit afraid of going with regular lifters because of the cam I have. As Kenne-Bell used to say, the Window Rattler's lope will have your friends thinking you have a .750-lift roller cam.

 

Some transmission fluid added to the engine oil can help free up a sticky lifter.

 

I checked to see if Rhoads was even still in business, and they are! They even have new, improved lifters that claim to work even better then the originals. Price has gone up in the years since I bought mine, as you would expect.

 

Thanks, that is a good tip to remember if this ever happens again. ATF seems to be useful for more than just in an auto trans. It's recommended for a lot of manual transmissions, and is an ingredient in some people's home brews for loosening rusty bolts.