I've been reading that after only 16 years R134a is being phased-out already. I'm planning to add Vintage Air and I want something that will be available in the future. R414B is getting some press as a replacement, but it's a blend and that's not the best solution either. It looks like GM was going to switch to HFO1234yf for the 2013 model year, but I just looked and my new GMC truck still has R134a. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene I wish some standard could be developed.
In the name of being more environmentally 'friendlier' they keep trying to make less and less stable CFC's. Other than a slight flamability risks (according to Mercedes) it sounds like a plug and play conversion from 134a. Flush the system, add oil and new freon.
Some large amount of research was done to determine a better chemical for air conditioning. Hopefully this is the best solution, and lasts longer than the TC134A example. That one is a greenhouse gas worse than methane, IIRC. ---------- Post added at 06:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 PM ---------- GM buys their refrigerant by the rail car, so the replacement in the supply chain may have been delayed until the current stocks ran out. I remember in 1970, a whole pile of cars' AC systems got trashed because a rail car of R-22 was left at the plant, instead of R-12. Back then, the system just got opened and the refrigerant released. That's punishable by hard time these days.
Though it mentions green house gas in the wiki article, the bigger problem is CFC's are catalizers for Ozone depletion, and the original CFC's were very very stable and do not break down very easily. The 134a and the new one are 'less' perfect CFC's and break down, just still not fast enough, so I'd expect another Freon or Freon substitute in the next decade or so.
I always wonder why car systems need to keep getting refilled or swapped out every 5 or 6 years but the ac units hanging out of peoples bedroom windows can last 20 years without much of a hickup. Maybe they need to use vibration dampening mounts or isolate the tubes from heat better or something. It'd be nice if we got to a point where people didn't have to know what refrigerant their car used.
Home systems are all tubing and no hoses, for one. Also, the compressor is sealed such that it doesn't see the atmosphere on the other side like an automotive AC compressor seal does. When the units are charged at the factory, they are welded (or brazed, maybe?) shut.
Yep. Sealed system with no rubber hoses. Copper will never ever leak unless at a joint or in some way damaged. Ive heard some rumblings that the R410A that we were all forced to switch to is to be phased out in the next 10 yrs. They dont even have a replacement in mind for it. Hopefully I'll be out of the industry by then.
I always laugh when I read about how people are bothered by using a flammable gas as a refrigerant. These people clearly have never passed a chemistry class. Never mind the gallons upon gallons of explosive gasoline present in your car, but a few ounces of flammable refrigerant? Oh Hell No. These phase-outs don't bother me one bit. If I want R-12, 22, 502, ect. I can still buy it. Yes, I have a license. One day, I would like to add a jug of 12 and 22 to my junk collection. That way I can fix my own residental A/Cs and convert my car from 134 back to 12. To all the professional refrigeration techs, be happy. Your income just got a little more secure.
So how about using an electric compressor and mounting it in the hvac box. Then all the lines can be hard lines and it eliminates the rubber from the system. It also would make it a lot easier to work on the engine without the massive compressor in the way. I just don't see why they can't make one system more like the other system. I've had window ac's that were over 20 years old and were mounted into walls year round. They survived everything from snow and ice to extreme heat and birds nests. Still blew ice cold and never had a hickup. I've yet to find a car with working ac that's over 9 years old. If the environmentalists really cared they'd focus on making a leak free system instead of worrying about what stuff is leaking. Treat the problem not the symptom.
The amp draw mainly. I think we are just getting to the point with hybrid engines and batteries where they can start doing that for more and more vehicles. But unless that vehicle comes with a couple hundred amp alternator it's hard to do. It'd probably take a solid 100amp draw motor (at 12v) to run an A/C pump. That's some big continuous duty cables too!
As opposed to the kids with 3 amps and 12 subs in their trunk. They run dual alternators and multiple batteries along with some big capacitors and 0 gauge wire. If you can go into walmart and buy a refrigerator that plugs into a cigarette lighter than they should have electric ac compressors in cars. Doesn't the refrigerator have a compressor in it? And that fits between the seats and runs off a 20 amp fuse.
Amps aren't continous duty and they run capacitors for the power spikes. And that's a heck of a lot of car re-engineering to hold multiple batteries and fit an extra alternator to solve a problem that occurs out of warranty. A small car refrigerator cools a couple well insulated cubic feet of air, a car is poorly insulated and tens of times larger. ---------- Post added at 02:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:11 PM ---------- And then people will just complain that their A/C doesn't work and they have to replace the batteries every couple years.
Plug and play Nothing! I went through the 134 conversion on automobiles. Barrier hoses (are the molecules the same size in the 414) flush the system-HAH!, more like replace the drier, condenser, compressor and evaporator (cause that is where the oil gets trapped), flushing only cleans the lines and puts umpteen million times more poisonous fumes into the air (I could clear out a 25 bay ford dealer, just flush an a/c, guys all green, gasping for air) than running 134 in a system that needs a boost every year. Remember, 134 was 300 time better for the ozone layer than 12 was. Why must we suddenly, and at great expense, convert to a refrigerant that now passes a "lower level of danger to the ozone layer" which threshold was determined by an EPA employee out to save his job. I know how it works, and all it does is cost us money...
