I'm totally getting ahead of myself, but I lined up a trailer and motorhome to take out to Michigan next fall for the Pure Stock race....and the 65 is almost set up well enough to be competative (for what it is) - my goal is to run consistant 14.5-14.7 this season. I ran a string of 14.77s @ 92 at the end of last season so I'm almost there.... These are the cars I'd likely be bracketed with: [TABLE="width: 609"] <TBODY>[TR] [TD="class: xl40, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Year [/TD] [TD="class: xl40, width: 82, bgcolor: transparent"]Make [/TD] [TD="class: xl40, width: 129, bgcolor: transparent"]Model [/TD] [TD="class: xl40, width: 77, bgcolor: transparent"]Engine/HP [/TD] [TD="class: xl40, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Trans [/TD] [TD="class: xl41, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Axle [/TD] [TD="class: xl42, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Best ET [/TD] [TD="class: xl41, width: 74, bgcolor: transparent"]Best MPH [/TD] [TD="class: xl40, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]Weight [/TD] [TD="class: xl40, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]HP [/TD] [TD="class: xl42, width: 64, bgcolor: transparent"]60 Foot [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl43, bgcolor: white"]1972 [/TD] [TD="class: xl28, bgcolor: white"]Mercury [/TD] [TD="class: xl28, bgcolor: white"]Montego GT [/TD] [TD="class: xl28, bgcolor: white"]351/266 [/TD] [TD="class: xl28, bgcolor: white"]3A [/TD] [TD="class: xl29, bgcolor: white"]3.50 [/TD] [TD="class: xl30, bgcolor: transparent"]15.385 [/TD] [TD="class: xl31, bgcolor: white"]89.29 [/TD] [TD="class: xl28, bgcolor: white"]4252 [/TD] [TD="class: xl32, bgcolor: white"]236 [/TD] [TD="class: xl47, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]2.290 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl44, bgcolor: white"]1972 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Buick [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]GS 350 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]350/195 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]4M [/TD] [TD="class: xl34, bgcolor: white"]3.08 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]14.806 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]97.05 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]3922 [/TD] [TD="class: xl37, bgcolor: transparent"]280 [/TD] [TD="class: xl48, bgcolor: white, align: right"]2.528 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl45, bgcolor: transparent"]1964 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]Chevrolet [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]Impala SS [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]327/300 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]4M [/TD] [TD="class: xl38, bgcolor: transparent"]4.10 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]15.216 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]93.01 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]3848 [/TD] [TD="class: xl37, bgcolor: transparent"]242 [/TD] [TD="class: xl49, bgcolor: white, align: right"]2.264 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl44, bgcolor: white"]1972 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Ford [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Gran Torino Sport [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]351/266 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]3A [/TD] [TD="class: xl34, bgcolor: white"]4.11 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]14.865 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]92.57 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]4182 [/TD] [TD="class: xl37, bgcolor: transparent"]259 [/TD] [TD="class: xl48, bgcolor: white, align: right"]2.174 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl44, bgcolor: white"]1969 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Mercury [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Cougar Eliminator [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]351/290 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]3A [/TD] [TD="class: xl34, bgcolor: white"]4.11 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]14.694 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]90.99 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]3532 [/TD] [TD="class: xl37, bgcolor: transparent"]208 [/TD] [TD="class: xl50, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]2.053 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl44, bgcolor: white"]1969 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Pontiac [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Grand Prix J [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]428/390 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]4M [/TD] [TD="class: xl34, bgcolor: white"]3.55 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]14.571 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]97.09 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]4220 [/TD] [TD="class: xl37, bgcolor: transparent"]301 [/TD] [TD="class: xl51, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]2.361 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl44, bgcolor: white"]1970 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Ford [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Galaxie XL [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]429/360 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]3A [/TD] [TD="class: xl34, bgcolor: white"]3.25 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]14.732 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]93.80 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]4440 [/TD] [TD="class: xl37, bgcolor: transparent"]386 [/TD] [TD="class: xl50, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]2.258 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl44, bgcolor: white"]1966 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Chevrolet [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]Chevelle SS 396 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]396/325 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]4M [/TD] [TD="class: xl34, bgcolor: white"]3.31 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]14.474 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]97.93 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]3754 [/TD] [TD="class: xl37, bgcolor: transparent"]275 [/TD] [TD="class: xl50, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]2.246 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl45, bgcolor: transparent"]1971 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]Pontiac [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]GTO [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]400/300 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]4M [/TD] [TD="class: xl38, bgcolor: transparent"]3.90 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]14.754 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]95.87 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]3950 [/TD] [TD="class: xl37, bgcolor: transparent"]272 [/TD] [TD="class: xl51, bgcolor: transparent, align: right"]2.236 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl45, bgcolor: transparent"]1970 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]Chevrolet [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]Chevelle SS 396 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]402/350 [/TD] [TD="class: xl36, bgcolor: transparent"]4M [/TD] [TD="class: xl38, bgcolor: transparent"]3.31 [/TD] [TD="class: xl22, bgcolor: transparent"]14.477 [/TD] [TD="class: xl35, bgcolor: transparent"]98.12 [/TD] [TD="class: xl33, bgcolor: white"]4002 [/TD] [TD="class: xl39, bgcolor: white"]295 [/TD] [TD="class: xl49, bgcolor: white, align: right"]2.346 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: xl46, bgcolor: transparent"]1964 [/TD] [TD="class: xl23, bgcolor: transparent"]Studebaker [/TD] [TD="class: xl23, bgcolor: transparent"]Commander [/TD] [TD="class: xl23, bgcolor: transparent"]289/240 [/TD] [TD="class: xl23, bgcolor: transparent"]4M [/TD] [TD="class: xl25, bgcolor: transparent"]4.56 [/TD] [TD="class: xl26, bgcolor: transparent"]14.465 [/TD] [TD="class: xl27, bgcolor: transparent"]95.98 [/TD] [TD="class: xl23, bgcolor: transparent"]3564 [/TD] [TD="class: xl24, bgcolor: transparent"]246 [/TD] [TD="class: xl52, bgcolor: white, align: right"]2.281 [/TD] [/TR] </TBODY>[/TABLE] So now I'm looking at the rules and seeing if I'm leaving anything on the table...(beside geariing) http://www.purestockdrags.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=48&Itemid=53 Right out of the gate, I've got to put the AFB back on and get good with it, and Toms rockers are out fo the question (although I still intend to run them ASAP) As I look at the rules, the most "room" seems to be in valvetrain,Cam Choice,Compression and Head prep: Valve Train: The valve train must be factory stock for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. Rocker arm ratio must be correct for the year and horsepower claimed. No aftermarket rocker arms of any kind allowed. Stock stamped steel or stock cast iron factory rocker arms only. Random requests for valve cover removal WILL happen. Poly-lock type adjustable nuts, jam (crimp) nuts, and adjustable pushrods are allowed. Valve covers must be correct for the year, make, and horsepower claimed. OEM-style replacement lifters only – no trick racing lifters (i.e. ceramic) or shimmed (limited travel) hydraulic lifters allowed. Maximum valve spring SEAT pressure allowed is 130 pounds. Higher seat pressure will require factory documentation. Factory spring configuration must be retained; that is, if your car came with single valve springs, you must run single springs. If it came with dual valve springs, you must run duals. Beehive valve springs are NOT allowed. No aluminum or titanium valve spring retainers allowed. Camshaft: The camshaft must be correct for the year, model, and horsepower claimed for the type of lifter (hydraulic or solid). Roller cams NOT allowed. Duration at .050" lobe lift must be within 1% of factory specs. Lift at the valve must be within 2% of factory specs. Engines must be able to produce at least 16.0 inches of vacuum at 1200 rpm. However, some factory-produced engines were not able to generate 16.0 inches in showroom condition, so those cars will be given a variance to the rule. Solid-lifter cams lift checked at zero lash. Compression Ratio Limits: All Engines – 1.5 extra points allowed over advertised. Contact us so we agree on the advertised compression. Engines with factory dished pistons will be allowed to run either a smaller dish, a flat-top piston, or a small domed piston to achieve the maximum allowed compression. Engines with factory flat-top pistons will be allowed to run a domed piston to achieve the maximum allowed compression. Engines with factory domed pistons must run a dome of equal or greater dome volume than stock to achieve the maximum allowed compression ratio. Heads can be milled and blocks decked within reasonable limits in combination with a), b), or c) above to help achieve the maximum allowed compression ratio. I'm not likely to get into pistons, but I might be able to do a set of heads this year and cam (if there's a beter choice than stock....) What do the experts think? It's a challange, and I wnt to make sure this group is well represented by what I think will be the first nailhead in the series since it begain (in this configuration) over 10 years ago? Thakns,
Mabey the factory 091 cam doc is talking about. To bad you cant run the q-jet. mabey you could get by with it
I could bring both set ups and swap if they catch me (hope they're not reading this!) , but I think I might be better off really fine tuning the AFB this season...I'll miss the Q-Jet, and you can bet it'll be back on in October... I was thinking about the 091, which are rare as hens teeth I think and may not meet the spec requirement - is there an AM equivilent? From what I hear I may be OK with the stock cam.... My best bet may be in blueprinting the heads - I've got pretty low compression (125-135 PSI across the board) - maybe a valve job would bring that back to where it needs to be. I've money socked away for Tom's rockers, maybe it's better spent on head work...(and thin gaskets?)
Thats what I'm thinking, but I cant use them in Michigan.... Gonna have to go back to basics I think.. So my next question is: to people who have been into their engine, what was the most common factor for low(er) compression; Ring sealing or valves?
Would this event be in Milan Michigan,at Milan Dragway,or at Mid-Michigan Motorplex,or other? http://www.waterwinterwonderland.com/dragstrips.aspx If it is at Milan Dragway I would sure like to try and be there. Anyway,if you can get into the lower end,you might be able to use ring spacers and thinner rings for less drag and less friction.(not sure what it would gain though) This article claims, Weve seen gains in excess of 15 horsepower with the change from 5/64-inch to 1.2mm rings in the same piston, says Keith Jones of Total Seal. The gains achieved by going to .8mm rings are significantly greater. http://www.enginelabs.com/news/total-seals-spacers-bring-thin-ring-technology-to-wide-grooves/ Heres an old Hot Rod mag article about it; http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0910_piston_ring_tech/viewall.html I couldn't find where to buy them,but the first link has a link down on the left hand side to Total seal's website,and their phone number below it. Let me know when and where,I live in Michigan,I might be able to make it out with a Buick(totally NOT stock though). Derek
It's at Mid Michigan in Stanton - generally mid september or so... I'll let everyone know if I'm going out....so far, so good (making a big leap of faith that the car is still ready to go at the end of the summer!) If I get into the bottom end, Tom T has a whole laundry list of things that we'd do....I'm just wondering If I'm losing compression at the valves at 70k miles or so.
I just read the rules,and it says IF you are running AM pistons that the minimum ring thickness is 1/16,BUT it doesn't say anything about ring spacers and much thinner rings on stock pistons.:Brow: Mid-Mich is harder to get away to go to that track,but maybe to early to tell.
Rhett, if you do another compression check squirt some oil down the spark plug hole if your compression goes up you will know its the rings for sure.
As you well know Rhett one of your bigger problems is with traction & the resultet 60 foot times. Bias ply tires are better for traction as they will "catch up" unlike radials that just keep spinning until you let up. Whatever you can to reduce the 60 foot time is normally doubled up top. An old trick we used because of the "Nails" cam design was using solid lifters on the hydraulic cam. I KNOW IT WORKS!!! They say you can use adjustable pushrods & if the clearance is kept around .006" intake & around .009" exhaust there will be little or no discernable "Ticking" that can be heard through the aluminum valve covers. This alone is usually worth 15-20HP. They are looking for an AFB "Type" of carb. so you can use an 800 CFM Edelbrock to replace the stock 625 CFM carb. With all the roughness in the castings & all the "Flash" in the casting in the way of air flow, the rough cast venturies etc. all of that in the air flow I bet they don't flow 625 as stated. Use the oil as mentioned. A valve job done properly will help, usually, no matter what. Back cutting the valves, doing some mild head work, milling the heads to try & gain back some lost compression. In stock form they are NOT 10.25-1, closer to 9.7 or so. Cutting the heads will bring this up. For every .004"-.005" removed from the head surface will reduce the combustion chamber volume by about 1cc. This in turn will raise the compression closer to more favorable/higher compression. I could go on about this for days. Tom T.
Then I'll give you a call.....The solid lifter thing is intriguing, but all I've got left within the rules seems to be bringing the compresion back to where it needs to beand cleaning up any airflow/seating issues around the valves. Not being a front runner I doubt I'd be subject to heavy tech, but I'd hate to get all the way out there and get shut down on a technicality, and have to go back to a set up I havent had a chance to fine tune.
I always thought this typ of racing sounded fun. Almost a back in the day style run what you brung. Wonder if there is a way to get more air through the air filter houseing with out really cheating.Biger carb, good dual exh. has to help. But I guess these are things you have already done.
Or, you could just save all the money you'd be spending on it trying to gain a few more hp an just go and have fun. Maybe perfect your launch technique, work on your 60ft. times, experiment with shift points, etc. Don't they pair up the cars according to time run times? So you'd just be running against different cars and have just as much of a chance of winning as the next guy. I understand seeking out every single horsepower on a race car, but how often do you race the car? Just my $.02.
Well,,,lets go back to the rules.... first off what are they going to do about the rule that states the rocker arms have to be stamped steel... or cast iron.... once again they have made rules for chebbys.... Nailhead buicks have forged aluminum rocker arms from the factory.....the rules makers need to realize that there are other cars out there besides chevrolet.... if you are stuck with a certain carb.. go thru it with a fine tooth comb.... Can you juggle factory cast iron exhaust manifolds to get ones that flow better??? if possible , do it.... can you run bigger pipes,, non stock mufflers,,,, pipe cap dumps??? bigger tail pipes.....?? You can gain hp. legally by fully blue printing the engine ie deck the block parallel to the centerline of the crank... then bore exactly 90 deg to the centerline of the crank.... Oh I know that certain ones are going to crap down both legs and start hollering no.... but that is what will get the most hp out of an engine.... is a/some cyls get too thin on one side.. sleeve it.... then bore it back straight.... this is what we did back in the day.....it takes brass nads to do this kind of machine work.... but it can be done and results in a engine that takes very little effort to turn over.... and makes considerably more power than one that has not been done that way.... and it is completely legal.... also grind the cam to perfect specs.... and degree the cam to perfect specs.... yes all this is expensive... speed costs money , how fast do you want to go?????:Brow::Brow: under the rules, can you port match???? if so do it.... Get cool air under the hood some way or the other.... remove the automatic brake adjusters to keep them from dragging.... you will have to adjust the brakes every 10,000 miles..... lighten the car as much as possible.... run with the convertible top up..... and all the windows up..... put just 5 gal of gas in the tank.... or less if you can get the car to run right without it.... narrow tires up front, wide at the back..... polish anything in the engine that you can..... notice I said in the engine.... shim the back of the hood up so hot air can get out and remove the weatherstrip that goes across the cowl..... get documentation on what the factory offered as options and over the counter parts kits for the year and model of your car.... most of the tech's at the strips dont know squat about Buicks.... so you have to be ready to prove specs to them.... most of the times the rules as drawn up , strongly favor chevrolet....:rant::rant:
The '72 Buick gives up 105 Hp and a full point on the gear ratio to the '64 Chevy and it only costs 1/4 second? Love them Buicks! :TU:
We used to disconnect the wires to the field of the alternator to take the charging load off the engine. We would also loosen the fan belt a little to allow it to slip and take the water pump and Power steering (if equipped) loads off.
Thanks to everybody for chiming in... Doc - all great tips, I dont know if I'm gonna have the time and cash to go that deep this summer - I could bolt on heads (and to Toms point lifters and pushrods) but blueprinting is a few years down the road.... Bill: Your suggestions are right on the money, and believe me I will have fun (Assuming I dont break something!) I'm not ultra competative. I've spent the last couple years doing exactly what you said, nailing down reaction times and 60 foots, and the chassis is finally at the point where it could handle a few more HP...I kinda set a personal goal that I wouldnt go to Michigan until I ran 14.5 consistantly....and I'm not quite there yet. I'm not trying to throw money at the car, but really use my head and tune the bejesus out of it, and . You're right about the pairings, last year I probably would have been paired with the 70 Ford XL (or SS396 or GTO) and we would have made a race of it! Win or lose, it will be a blast. 66GSConv - I did jack the filter element up on a loop of 3/8 hose, which leaves a gap betwen the lid and housing for more air..works pretty well. I actually had good luck (maybe a 10th?) with a hacked cold air set up made from dryer duct, but dont tell Doc - Next he'll be having me cut a hole in my cowl! John - Thought about what you're talking about with the alternator field, but never tried it because this car LOVES full voltage at RPM.. which wires do you disconnect? I do have some old extra belts I wouldnt mind glazing some....hhmmm Thanks again to everybody.
hey,Rhett,,,, did you ever think about cutting a hole in the cowl ??????:Brow::laugh::laugh: Like I did.... it works wonders.....:Brow::Brow:
