We are supposed to honor thy parents. But now is the time to be tested. My Dad.....just not a good guy. Coulda been, Shoulda been...but he was more concerned with beating kids so he could brag about it at the Mill or the Catholic church. So now they decide to sell the house. And there are tools there. Man there are tools. Things I couldn't afford in my whole life. Did I earn them? Does that make anything right? Tons of bodywork tools that he never taught me to use. Too foolish. Too concerned with them being displayed neatly. I'd like to tell him to stick 'em. I wanna show my kids the right way. None of the "do as I say, not as I do" creedo that my Dad loved. I wanna say move to my neighborhood where it would be easier to help them out as they get older. Its just not easy. Lord, I need to do the right thing. I've bit my lip so many times I've lost count. I didn't throttle him all those years ago when I was ready to. I wanted to, but I'da just continued in his ways. Some of youns musta dealt with this sorta thing. Prayers, thoughts, and experiences would be appreciated.
Dan, I read and reread your post four times. I can tell your head is full and teetering toward overload. Step back and take a deep breath. What's done is done. The past is what it was and nothing will change that. Shoulda, Coulda, Woulda changes nothing and dwelling on past hurtfull experiences only keeps you angry. You can deal with present situations as the occur. Don't be afraid to express how you feel if the need arises. Just do it honestly and kindly. Going to Cecil this weekend?
Dan, the last thing I want to do is judge you or your situation. I obviously don't know how your relationship with your father is/was/could be. All I want to do is ask a few questions for you to think about.... I'm not even looking for a reply.... How would it effect your children living closer to your parents? Do they get along? Do your parents live together still? If so, how do you get along with your mom? Good luck, it sounds like a tough situation. :beer
Don't make it an emotional discussion, make it a discussion about money. I had a similar discussion in my family when my grandfather sold his house and auctioned off everything he didn't need anymore. A lot of his tools had sentimental value to some of us because they were handmade by him. My aunt was insistant on getting fair prices for his stuff to the point of being impersonal with the rest of the family. She even went and got an appraiser. If we wanted to be sure we got something of grandpa's, we had to pay "appraised retail" price for it, and if we couldn't afford that, we could take our chances and bid on it at the auction. If your father wants to sell the tools, offer to buy them. Offer fair money for the used tools, and then the discussion won't digress to bickering as to who deserves what, it will just be a discussion about the price. But, if he doesn't want to sell or is unreasonable about the price, walk away for now, and buy them from his estate once he's dead. If he wants to sell them, but he just doesn't want to sell them to you, suggest he have an auction, and then bid on what you want at the auction. You might get the satisfaction of getting them cheaper at the auction than you would have if you paid cash. If he doesn't want to go that route either, work something out with a friend to buy the tools from him, and then buy them off your friend. - Freed
Obviously, you see the problems that come from one method of raising children, and want to do better. While that may not seem like very much, let me assure that it's a HUGE step in the right direction, and by itself puts you on the 'right track'. :TU: What's important now is what your kids see you trying to do, whether you're successful or not. If you're trying to do right by your parents and your parents reject your efforts (and even you), your kids will see it. Matter of fact, I'll bet they're already seeing and appreciating your efforts. :TU: :TU: As far as the tools, etc - I wouldn't worry, it's just stuff. And stuff has a way of working itself out. I'm glad to see you breaking the cycle of child abuse, and I'll be praying for you.
Dan, You cannot change the past and you cannot change your father. What you can do is forgive and move forward. My wife ALWAYS had issues with her father, apparently he hit her mother. He tried to make amends, but there was a ton of dysfunction and she was unable to truly forgive him. She always wanted him to ask for it. He wasn't capable. They didn't speak for years. We got word he was gravely ill. I was ready top pack up and drive to Omaha. Long story short...big fight between the two of us. She refused to go. He died two weeks later. She won't talk about it, but I know she wishes she could have forgiven him. Forgiveness must come from the person who was wronged. If you have the capacity to do it, make sure it is genuine. If you have not the capacity to do it, the Holy Spirit can help you. Ask HIm. If you forgive, your father cannot hurt you any longer. If you harbor resentmant and anger, it will always surface. You'll continue to be held captive by him. You can do it. Tools? Worry about them if you you can get through the forgivness issues. If not, they will only galvanize the pain of the past.
All good points and advice! Thanks for that and the prayers :TU: Lots to ponder. Forgiveness? I can and have done that. But then I had kids of my own and things come back to haunt me. I hear mine running around playing, or being silly trying to have fun with me. Basically, just being kids. When I was the kid, any of that was A$$ whooping time :af: from a Dad who just simply enjoyed being miserable. These simple reminders stir up some pretty steep anger lemme tell you. I will be trying to do the right thing as I am equipped to do following the teachings of Christ.
Dan, does this thread bring back memories of my late father. He exhibited similar behaviour towards me and my three younger siblings when we were kids. On the other hand, he could also be the epitome of a kind loving dad which all kids love to have, when he felt like it. He and I did not get along very well for a long time, until one day this spring, out of the blue, he showed up on my door. We had a real good conversation, which I now believe was his way of trying to atone for all that he was not as a younger man. It was only a few weeks later that he had a massive stroke, which led to his passing. It has hit me hard, (and still does), that he is no longer around to talk to. He and I had a physical confrontation when I was 18, in which we threatened to kill each other, and meant every word of it. That confrontaion ended somewhat uneasily, and began my slow burning disgust for him, which lasted far too long. I tried periodically to mend fences, with limited success. If he was also trying to do so, I was too stubborn to realize it at the time. It was only after his stroke that true feelings could be talked about. By then, it was almost too late. My dad was a product of the "old school Eastern European upbringing" and it was his way, or the highway. He wouldn't change this behaviour, and I don't expect your father to change his either. If he's anything like my dad was, pride will probably keep him from seeing any other way of doing things, except his own way. Perhaps, as age creeps up on him, he may mellow his behaviour somewhat. My dad was very a very proud man, who aspired to be better than his father was, and only somewhat succeeded. Both were laborers, except my dad was very involved with his local union politics, eventually becoming its president for several years. He alwasy wanted better than that for his children, and I belive it pained him that we did not achieve what he would have wanted. The only advice I'll offer, is keep biting your tongue, try as best as you can to communicate with him, and try not to allow the money issue into the equation. I wish you well in dealing with this, and trust that you'll make the best decisions. Try not to "over engineer" those decisions either, make them, and move on. I'm not a religious person, so I'll say that my thoughts are with you.
I really feel under equipped to answer, but when I read your post one of my favorite verses comes to mind. Jesus said "My grace is sufficient for you" just remember we received grace even while we were sinners so that we would be saved and show grace to others. This is one of those things that's easy to say and hard to do...I struggle with it daily.
Hey Dan. Here is something to think about. Those tools are just stuff. If you have to fight your dad to get them, every single time you see them or use them, it will likely remind you of the struggle. Do you really want that? As has been said previously, if you can sincerely find true forgiveness for him, that would be great. I don't recall reading if you have asked him for them rather than having them sold off. If you do, and your father gives you those tools of his own free will, you will always feel better about having them. If he doesn't, move on. Your children see a lot more than you may know. They will see how you handle this and learn from it. Good or bad.
Yes, this hits very close to home for me, also. My dad was abusive to my mother and my older brother. In some ways, he ruined my brother. But on the other hand, he could be a warm and loving father. Near the end of his life, when my mom was bedridden with cancer, and dad was also dealing with his own cancer, I found out that he physically abused my mom up until when I was a young man. I had thought that this behavior had ended when I was still a child. I was shocked that it lasted that long. Well, I developed a very strong dislike for my dad in the days when he needed me the most. My mom had passed after her short illness, and I was the only one left to help him as my brother passed many years ago. I had to help him with his meals, help him dress, help him to bed at night. But I did this with no love for the man, only doing a very cold duty. He asked me why I was so cold to him in his hour of need, his last days on earth. I told him about the abuse he had heaped on my mom and my brother. He told me to remember the good things he had done for us. Dan, if I had it to do all over again, I would have tried harder to be kind and loving to him when he needed me, tried harder to remember the good things. But I couldn't do it then. Now it's too late. I've forgiven him, but I just couldn't do it while he was alive. So I guess I'm saying, try to make peace whith your dad while he's still here, while you still have a chance. Good luck Dan, and I'll keep you in my prayers.
Man, so much good advice here. First off, I have good parents, so I'm not in your situation. My extended family is very disfunctional though, with a lot of the same things you are talking about.Relationships are hard no matter who you are, I think. I have a lot of questions about tensions in my family, with no real idea as to why they are there. All I can tell you is, that at the end of the day, we are all just people with faults; people who are a product of how we were raised and the things that have happened to us. Try to keep this in mind when you think of your father. I bet if you knew everything he has lived through, you would find new understanding as to the "why". It's not an excuse for him, more a challenge and possibility for you to be the bigger man in the situation. I can tell you, most of us have been hurt one way or another, and it does have an affect on who you are. For some of us, like you, we use it as fuel for change and run as fast as we can from the person that we have the potential to be. The hardest part for anyone is to identify the reason behind the way we are. I think some have been so hurt in the past that they just can't face up to it honestly and learn to deal with the issues. Burying it actually turns them into the kind of people that they were hurt by. Be thankful that God has given you the wisdom to see the potential and find balance and healing in your own life. Pray for your father to find the same. If you need to, try to think of him not as your father, but as just another person you might have met anywhere... try to divorce yourself from the emotion of the situation and understand his humanity. It sounds odd, but it's a way to find better understanding and room to allow God to change your heart toward him. I think it's a lot about finding the balance in the relationship. Sometimes I think you just have to cut and run for your own sake, and the sake of your kids, especially when the other person hasn't come to a realization of the hurt they have caused. Sometimes distance is the best thing in a hurtful or manipulative relationship. I guess I would just keep my distance as far as the tools go... totally not worth the aggravation. Family and money issues are best left as separate as possible, no matter how good the relationship is. ________ INSTRUCTIONS FOR VAPORITE
I'm a dad and my dad is now gone. I was 18 once and thought I knew everything, boy was I wrong. There are certain situations that demand a strong hand and others that need just talking. My dad was a army man all his life. Imagine what thats like living like that. But he instilled a few good things in me. One of them is if you borrow something put it back exactly like you found it an grease free not broken. Everything has a place an it should be there. I do everything myself, if I can't. Try first and screw it up, then pay somebody to fix it. Anyways my oldest boy doesn't want to learn nothing but play computer games. He hates it when I make him do things that he doesn't want to do. But he will appreciate it later in life. Like I did. You know the school of hard knocks. College wasn't an option for me, it was get a job, go to work. I learn everything from reading an screwing it up the first time or two. Knowledge comes with age an experience Period. But I'm sure your dad is gonna teach you something you will use on this earth and hopefully it's not a bad one you will use. That choice is all up to you. :grin:
Due to a family rift I didnt see my grandparents till I was 20, I'd have to say a realationship between your kids and your parents is important. By no means am I saying that our situations are similar but the end result could be. Due to family problems My parents moved, changed our last names and never talked to them again. It wasnt till after my father died that I looked them up, very nice people as it turns out. What I wish I could do is ask/confront my dad why and give him **** for the other crap( abuse), I've tried with my mother but shes mentally unstable( she told me that grandma and grandpa were witches and cast evil spells, dont laugh, you believe that **** when youre 4-and up) and now married a inmate in jail for murder. I'm gettting off topic and point, almost ready to delete the whole thing but you have to confront him about how you feel. You need it and you'll be glad you did. I'm not saying a fist fight, but to sit down somewhere where you wont get inturupted and hash it out. and after you do, you simply tell him I forgive you for what you did and you will never treat your kids like that. Kids are smart, they'll figure out in a hurry if they like them or not. And parents are wierd, once they become grand parents they act different. It might even do you good to look up a group where you could talk about it, this happened to alot of people, its ok to get over it and move on. Past is exactly where it is, back there somewhere. You get great kids right? Enjoy them. You have no idea how many times I read this and debated on deleting it. Alot of this I've told anyone else, but I figured that it may be of some help. If not to you maybe someone else.
Thanks Mark. I never really thought much how they can be different grandparents than parents. Thanks Jadebird and Geoemojr for your input too!
Actions Dan, There is no cut and dried answer. You are doing things right, First You have a good relationship with the Lord and that is a big advantage. Then You can just hold your head up right and walk tall by doing what you know to be right. Then You, God, and your family will all know what a real man is. It takes a real man to be gentle, instructive, and have genuine integrity. All of which You seem to have. I have some tools that my dad and my grand father had and they do bring back memories.
