Has any body run a oil accumlater? My friend at work has smoked 2 sets of main bearins on a chev moter withe one. he took it off and problems went away. He was using it from start up, through the run, and back to the pits with it on. I was going to use it on start up for prime-turn it off. turn on through the run. turn off back to the pits. Run about 30-35 psi pre charge.
when you are filling the accumulator with oil what is happening to your bearings? the oil is being directed to the accumulator and very little to the bearings. at least thats my theory on the subject. i could be wrong and if i am i'm sure somebody will be along shortly to correct me. Bob G
Your right. YOu fill the accumulator and you don't get the oil you need to the bearings. If you run an external oil pump, priming is alot easier.
We have run a 3 qt. "Accusump" accumulator for the last 3 years. We have the electric solenoid open from pre-start up until the ignition is turned off with no problems. After two years of racing (300+ runs) and street driving, the bearings looked the best they ever have during this past winter's freshen-up. We even considered leaving them in - but changed them anyway for peace of mind. Just my $.02
BIG PASTA- How much air pressure pre charge are you using? I am thinking this is the key. To little and you will start to starve out the bearing when pump press. is over cuming precharge press.
I just started running a MasterLube system. I use it as a pre oiler. Ran it on my old motor for a couple of months and seemed to be fine. Just started using it on my new motor. I have it set up at 75 pound (basically max pressure for motor) Start up procedure is to throw the oil switch and start the motor when I see 20 psi on the oil pressure guage. When the engine starts I let it run up to max pressure cold and then close the accumulator. Anyone see anything I am doing Wrong?
Accusump comment undefinedundefined I have used the accusump and have damaged main bearings twice. Part of that issue is that I had two close tolerances and an oil by pass in the rear of oil galleys. I still think it is a good system if I change the start-up and refill procedures a bit. I used it because I have a remote oil filter and it takes about 5 to 8 seconds (depending on oil weight and temp) to get to the cam bearings after ignition. I'm a thinking, turn on the elec. solnoid, prime the oil galleys to 20lbs, turn of the switch, warn the motor then recharge the sump after warmup. I do not need it for volume since I enlarged the oil pan to 7 quarts. The problem I have seen with my elec. solnoid is it reacts too slow to leave on the ignition switch as big Pasta had done. The pressure bleeds down before the valve is closed completely, thus there is not enough pressure to prime the galleys as I would like. This is especially true if the engine is at idle when the ignition is off and the valve shuts. Not so bad if I shut the valve at 2500RPM, pressure will remain in the can at 60lbs, then turn off the ignition. Weekender If you run to must pressure on the backside your oil cannot refill the front of the canister. I was told to set backside @ 15 to 20lbs, you a higher pressure than that to refill the canister. when the two pressures equalize it would seem to me that the canister stops filling. Physics you know.
man shut off valve I was going to set mine up like I saw the kid on hotrod TV. He had the accumulater in the cockpit with a manual shutoff valve on it. To do a prime he open the valve releasing precharge, started the engine,overcame precharge with engine pump press.,closed accumlater shutoff valve.
Manual valve setup This is where I and some of the other members feel the problem lies with this type of oiling system add on. If you let the canister fill on a cold startup the canister will take preeminance over the oil supply and the iol will flow toward the line of least resistance (i.e. empty can verses small oil galleys), thus starving the main and cam bearing until the canister is full. If you continue do this, imediate damage may not occur. However, if you repeatedly starve the bearing on your rotating assembies (i.e rods. mains and camshaft) at startup the accumulated damage may become apparent in a catastrophic manner in time. Weekender
Sailbrd I have been thinking about your startup procedure on the oil sump system. are you saying that you preset the backend pressure at 75lbs? If you are does it not seem reasonable that your oil pump pressure will never be able to overcome your system back pressure, thus, you have very little, or no oil reserve in the cannister. The system is designed to have only enough back pressure to press the piston in the cannister forward as the oil is released into the motor if a drop in oil pressure occurs in the engine. The basic law of physics tells me that two things cannot occupy the same space. If you have 75lbs of air in the full length of the cannister behind the piston within the cannister and the pressure is preset at the same as you maximum engine oil pressure, only air will remain in the cannister. If you have oil in the cannister, you should be able to see 20 lbs on the gauge before firing the engine, which seems to be what you have described. Does your Master system have an actual preset maximum pressure gauge or system or just a pressure gauge at the backend as mine does? Weekender
I use the 2.5 quart accumulator with a solenoid/valve. When I turn the ignition switch on, the oil, under whatever pressure was there when I turned off the igintion switch, flows into the engine. The oil accumulator line is connected to the top outlet of the Stage I oil filter. This is the prelube. Most times it's around 60 lbs. I have an additional oil pressure light that is at about 15 lbs. The light immediately goes out. I wait several seconds, perhaps as many as ten, then start the engine. The 2.5 quarts is in addition to the 8 quart custom oil pan. The additional 2.5 quarts of oil remain in the accumulator durning running thus not affecting or causing an over fill problem. So far so good. I also run a pre load pressure of 20 lbs on the cannister. With one of the valve covers off, I've seen oil move through the push rod holes to the roller rockers, just using the accumulator under pressure before engine start.
Accusump system reply Hi Sailbrd Thank you for your response. You are using the very same proc. I am about to implement after having a multitude of problems from mains bearing to cam bearing issues. I remove the oil sump beacause of main failure as mentioned in a previous thread, Then ran the engine (Brand new) w/o sump and immediately lost the TA 1589 cam bearing from heat stress at startup. These puppies delaminated like they never had a bonding agent under the babbit. Your procedure is about as good as it gets so the bearing are not starved for oil when cold. I plan the refill the cannister after warmup after everything is nice and juicy! Hey! doyou know how to get the smiley faces into a message? Weekender
Just click on them. They are "text" in your message as you compose it, but they will show up in the post. :TU:
Lots of good ideas here. My accumlator runs about 1/2 full (1 qt). The guage for the system is plumbed into the accumulator reservoir. I am not sure what is ment by backend. According to MasterLube (not sure if they are still in business as their website is down) the system should be charged at about maximum pressure. Then open the switch and let it bleed down to zero. This will not put all that much oil into the system as far as I can tell. It will not come close to emptying the reservoir. At this point I closed the switch and started the motor. When the motor was up to max pressure (about 80#) I opened the switch to recharge the reservoir. That brings the reservoir up to about 75#. Since this thread I have changed the startup procedure to make sure I do not get a bleed off at startup. Now I open the system and let pressure build to max (about 30#) then close the system. Start the motor and let pressure build to max. Then open the system to recharge. I also have an oversized pan and am pulling great oil pressure on new motor (hot idle 25#, 75# at 5000 rpm) Hey Weekender I see you are in Clio. I am at the other end of the County in Linden. The guy that ported my heads is in Clio and did a great job. Look for a Yellow GSX clone when you are out and about. I try to make the Flushing cruises when I have the car together.
Why do you open and close the "system". Just wire off the ignition and let it do it's thing. Ignition on....oil pressure, whatever it was when the ignition switch was last turned off, dumps to the engine. Just before you shut it off at the end of a run or in your driveway, rev the motor slightly, then kill the ignition. Oil pressure in the accumulator is now stored and ready for the enxt time you turn it on.
I added an Acc. to my engine after the last build due to seeing 0 psi in the traps with and 8 Qt pan. I have the lifter galley restricted and belived I was holding oil in the top of the motor during the run. I have a .25 in. oil line to my gauge which is in the rear of the block on the passenger side. I am using Finshline motor sports oil pump which picks up from the the pan and goes to a remote filer and then into the old sending until hole in the block. I also was very interested in per oiling the motor before start up. I tied the Acc. into the line which is going to the motor and installed a check valve to ensure the oil is not back flowing through the filter. I have a silenoid valve which is wired through my fuel pump relay to open and close the Acc. My motor has 25psi hot at Ideal and jumps to 80 at the touch of the throttle. My proceedure for start up is to turn on the fuel pump which opens the valve and I see 30 to 40 psi at the rear of the motor within 2 - 3 seconds. I then crank the motor and let the Acc. refill. My oil psi on the gauge never falls off so the refilling of the Acc. is not showing up on the gauge. I would say I have no starvation issues at all. When I start to turn the car off I raise the rpm's and and let the gauge on the tank raise up to 60 psi then I cut off the fuel pump which closes the valve and let the motor ideal down and the cut the ignition. I took the motor down after 25 runs for an inspection and the break coating on the bearings was still on the bearing. So far so good I now have over 100 runs and see no issues with oil psi. Car best ET 10.30 @ 128
Oil Accumlator Hi Doug I have seen your car around, Look ver-r-r-y nice. Eventually we will meet up at one of these shows. The reason for my interest in this thread is that I have had bearing problems on a new motor and I have been trying to isolate the problem since May. I was using the ignition switch for on/off as outlined by one of the members. I do not believe after hearing all the comments that the cannister was a MAJOR factor in my circumstance. I believe the oil galley loop at the rear of the motor an tight tolerances .0015" on the mains was my downfall. When I rebuilt the engine after the mains bearing failures I tried the TA performance cam bearing and had an immediate failure of these parts. :rant: So, down she came again for crank polishing and new main bearings. I a currently using the Calico coated cam bearing again, these held up very well even when I had a the catastrophic loss of 1 and 4 mains last time. Keeping my fingers crossed for a another drive this year. If not, dear hunting :blast: is coming and I'm fickled about my hobbies and I will warm up my bow and head north for the rest of the year.
Smileys are working fine Dennis Thanks for the help. A picture is worth a thousand words you know and these pretty much covers all the motions one feels about our cars. I appreciate the warning at the footer of your threads, but I truly thankful for the last part of the verse which explains how to avoid that death, "But the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ". Thats the good news, right? Weekender :TU:
