We've got an O ringed block we've been runnin with various thicknesses of copper head gaskets,does any one know if we can put in felpro gaskets in place of the copper ?do we have to remove the o rings? thanks for your help gary
Gary, I have run felpro gaskets with o-rings on many occasions with no problems. Definately retorque the heads after warm . Jim Burek
O RING Gary, depends how hi above the deck that the o ring sticks up and is your o ring material stainless or copper? The fire ring on the felpro gasket is stainless also, there for the gasket does not crush and seal properly. Where I find the problem is, between the cylinders the fire rings are joined together the o ring will not sink into the fire ring in that area, not allowing it to seal correctly and causing water leaks etc. I removed the o ring on my 13.1 iron headed engine and it seems to be ok, But the deck and head surface has to be dead flat! I will be trying TA orange crush head gaskets soon, I think they will work considerably better. Chris
o rings Chris thanks for the input,I'm back at square one again.The o rings are stainless.I see where your referring between the cylinders and it makes sense.I wonder if Jim B has experienced the same issue?? How hard is it to remove the o rings? gary
Re: o rings Gary, I have used both stainless wire and copper wire . I have never had a problem with the felpro gaskets and o-rings. I have numerous gaskets lying around here with a very good solid imprint from the o-ring wire. Amybe the position of the wire will cause some issues. On what we do here, the oring pinches just inside the outer edge of the gasket steel o-ring. You definately need to retorque the heads with the o-rings, especially after warm-up. I don't like the o-rings to be up more than .010 to .012 above the block deck. Th eo-rings can be tough to get out, use a tiny flat blade screw driver and a small hammer to work an edge of the o-ring up, once you get it to lift even a little, they are pretty easy to remove. Jim Burek
Why would you not want to continue using o-ring/copper gasket combo? Are you experiencing water leaks?
o rings 10-4 on the water leaks.the motor is only 11 to 1 compression,the reason for the o rings was the possibility of using NO2.My other motors use the felpros up to 12.5 and never have a problem,so I'd just as soon go that way.We tried a .020 and the .040 copper gaskets and get leaks around the water jackets,even with silicone.the heads have'nt been trued for a while so maybe they need to be surfaced,but they did'nt leak when removed from another motor with felpros,so I assume they're close.Also,the short block was run all last year with stage 2 aluminum heads and the .040 copper and no leaks,ergo,my confusion on whats happining. Jim I'll check where the o ring contacts the felpro at,then get back to you Jim,thanks for your help.This is one of the few times I've been stymied. gary
JMO Gary, but since felpros are thicker and composite they are more forgiving of the surfaces. Also maybe the head isn't torquing down exactly the same between different blocks (core shift??). Using studs or bolts?
o rings Using studs.yeah,your right the felpros are a little more forgiving.I think I'll give em a try,we,ve had the heads on and off 3 times in the last couple days so we're pretty proficient at it,one more attempt.and hpoefully without failure,is no big deal. gary
O RINGS Gary, remove the o ring and be done with it. It takes a sharp pointy tool, after that it almost falls out. Even if the o ring falls out side the stainless fire ring on most of the cylinder it still hits in between the holes, Why not just stick a rock in there? Sorry guy's it doesn't make sence to me, I've seen three people up here try it with no success, all three of the engines were 11.6 to 13.1. Good luck Gary, let me know how you make out........Chris
Good seal tip With my o-ring set-up there is a receiver groove in the head to give the gasket somewhere to go and let the head seal up tighter around the water passages which always seems to be a problem on aluminum head set-ups. I haven't had any gasket failure problems with nitrous so I don't feel the receiver groove in the head causes any problems. Good luck with the NO2!:TU: I hope you don't like it TOO much.:stmad: I'm hooked! :stmad:
Just another thought guys. I had heard from another engine builder that if you have o-ring grooves in the block and don't put any o-rings in them, the head gasket will press into the groove and make a better seal. This is the set-up I have, although unintentional. This build-up I am using Orange Crush gaskets. The first time the motor was together I had Fel-Pros. When I disassembled I could see where the gasket had been pushed into the o-ring grooves. I'm running 13.3-1 and didn't have a problem with head gaskets. Just a thought. Have fun.
Im not running nearly the compression as you guys but I had O-ringed the block and used SCE Copper gaskets - water leaked twice, ditched the Orings and installed the orange crush. 3+years, Alotta miles and lots of street fun......never a problem since
Yes, I believe just around the coolant holes - I had someone alot mor knowledgeable than me do the final assy. They were also re-torked after a few heat cycles. It was pissing outside the block....like inbetween #5-#7 toward the oil dipstick I used an awl ground to a very fine point...and a light tacking hammer (like to put up picture frame hangers) to remove them. Difficult to get started, but once one edge is up, easy to chase around gently and remove. Funny - I paid to have the block O-ringed and bought the good annealed copper gaskets to avoid any blown gasket problems (knowing I'd never be running high CR) and it backfired on me.
