Guys, this is going to be a way fun project. My wife, being German and having previously owned a 5 series and a 7 series Euro model BMWs, decided she wanted another. I found a 6 series, which we both agree is a better looking car than a 5 or a 7, for about $500 and bought it. It has been sitting taking up space for about six months now. The thing had some bad lifter/rocker noise, needs a complete exhaust and some body work just to be a driver. Here's my thought, please tell me if I have completely lost my mind. I have a BBB 400 short-block in dire need of a rebuild and a home. I also have at least one 400 and one 350 BOP trans. (The BMW is currently an auto) I thought about swapping the third member out for a later model 7 series and marrying the the engine/trans and the BMW body chassis. Some big wheels and tires all the way around, new brakes, anti-sway bars and presto-chango, instant rocket. Now, I doubt there are any Bimmer purists on this board but if you are out there, hold your water. The 3.0 slant six in the car now is most likely frozen stiff, the trans barely moved the car onto my trailer, with me pushing it. So either way, it is getting re-powered. So, other than the obvious things like cooling and electrical, my main concern is the oil pan and the existing cross member and the frame mounts. The engine bay looks to be plenty big enough to hold the Buick motor by eyeballing the width and length so I doubt that's a problem. I like the 350 trans idea because it is physically smaller than the 400 and the car is pretty light. All of which leads me to believe that a 350 with a decent kit in it would last behind the big engine. Have I lost my mind? :bglasses: :laugh: Any experience from anyone putting American Iron in a BMW? Other concerns?
I once knew an old fella who dropped a TPI 231 into a british Sunbeam, being a light little thing the Sunbeam was extremely fast, but only backwards, because the factory engine spun the other way. Do remeber to verify that the rear- end will work beforehand, the fabrication on this would be tedious enough that I imagine swapping in an american rear-end wouldn't be a real big deal. Also the gauges? Perhaps figure on a nice set of auto-meter gauges or something to be sure they read the coolant temp and such correctly. The sensors in the factory car may scale differently. A th350 was common enough in a lot of different wheelbase cars that you may be able to locate a driveshaft the old fashioned way, "on your back with a tape measure in a wrecking yard". This sounds like a really cool project, after some little snags like these, it definetly sounds do-able. In the spring I'll be fitting a Nissan SR20 to a Volkswagon tranny. I had considered the 231 (OF COURSE) but the last one I ran tended to sieze when I ran it wide open for a long time, "perhaps I got a bunk one" and this application demands that. The SR20 is kind of "icky" to think about for me, but it's factory rated @ 220hp, we'll be finding out how tough VW transaxles are. Please post again , I'd like to hear the outcome of the BMW. Tom
Got any pics of the old 6-series? I don't think I've ever seen one. Sounds like a cool project. I was toying with picking up a mid 90's 5 or 7 series (prefer the 5 since you can get them with manuals) for a daily driver and sticking dual exhaust and a set of Borlas or Flowmasters on there just to make some noise, it totally wouldn't fit the car and would be a lot of fun. But your idea sounds much better, so go for it! hehe, the BuickMW.
This might help a little Well, while I cant say for sure about the 6 series, I do know FOR A FACT that an E-30 3 series will accept a sbb 350. I mated it to a Borg-Warner 4 speed OD automatic from a toyota pick up truck. I used the BW-Toyota tranny for several reasons. First off, I found a company that sold an out-put shaft that worked with the BMW drive-line, as the BMW uses a "european" style universal joint that's called a "Guibo disk". It has a more in common with the "rag joint" in the steering linkage of classic american iron than the 4 prong universal joint were all familiar with. The company I got it from is called Dakkar Motorsports and their based in the UK. As of 2 years ago, they did not have a web site, but that may have changed. I found them [well, actually the guy I did the swap for found them] on a BMW chat room. Second reason I used it was because a 231 buick V6 swap into a toyota truck is actually quite common, so an adaptor was readilly available from summit. Third reason was Dakkar sold all the adaptors to make everything else work,,, speedo, shifter, computer, etc. The other reasons are pretty obvious... Truck tranny, so you know it's tuff enuff, Overdrive, etc. The SBB was an easy fit,,, surprisingly. No problems anywhere! I used stock exhaust manifolds, but had to cross the drivers side under the engine and run dual 2 inch pipes down the passengers side for enough clearance, as there's no provision on the BMW body for real duals. The Dakkar adaptors basically dis-abled the engine wiring harness, throwing the computer into open loop mode. The temp guage would not work, nor would the idiot lights, so I mounted a triple guage set on top of the dash. One wire hook up to the HEI got the tach working just fine. Heavy duty front "rally" springs from Eibach brought the front end up to almost stock height. The engine itself was pretty warmed over. Keith black 10:1's, Crower cam, poston intake, HEI with Accell parts... Probably 325+ HP and 400 torque, which turned out to be MORE than enough!!!! As BMW's are built to handle corners, and not high power take-offs. 245-45-16's were the biggest meats that would fit on the rear, but they go up in smoke instantly on take off with anything more than 1/2 throttle. Once above 30 MPH it's a rocket ship. The BW torque converter gives about 2200 RPM's, which is nice, and once it hits OD, it's a corvette eater on the expressway. For cooling, we used 2 stock BMW 325 radiators mounted one in front of the other. The forward one is in the stock location. Juice flows into the rear one first, then into the forward one. The stock A/C auxiliary electric fan handles ALL the air-flow as there was no room left for an engine mounted fan, but it seems to work fine. The A/C was completely removed, and the fan runs full time once the key is turned on. The stock electric FI fuel pump pushes up to the stock "late" style mechanical pump on the SBB, and the return line takes care of what's not needed. I hope some of this is helpfull. As for your 630, well, here's what I know- The 3000/3500 "big six" BMW engine you have weighs about the same as a SBC, and the SBC is about the same weight as a BBB, so that should help some. If you can score a radiator from a 635-csi, or an M-6, I would be willing to guess that would handle all of your cooling needs. I would not use the T-350/400 tranny, but instead try to find one from an 88-89 750-il, 850-il, or 850-csi [rare]. There computer controled, and would require swaping the computer from the donor 750-850 car, but the computer can be fooled into closed loop mode with a series of relays, so basically it would be a stand-alone computer that controls the tranny only. After 1990, BMW went to the OBD-3 "on board diagnostics" system that cant be fooled. The down side of the BMW tranny is there are no "performance" converters available, and aside from the 850-csi, will stall out at about 12-1500 rpm's. Also, a custom adaptor will be required to mate it to the BBB. There's a company that advertises in hemmings motor news that makes any adaptor you could ever want, but there kind of expensive... About $400 from what I'v heard. You could make your own adaptor. I personally have made several of them. It's not as scarry as you might think, but it takes a lot of time, carefull thinking, planning ahead, and most importantly, REQUIRES the engine and tranny be out of the car. The up side of using a BMW tranny is that you can keep intact the stationary drive line without having to go thru the head-aches of a full custom drive shaft... If you have ever actually looked at the drive shaft in your 630, you know what I'm talking about. If you do keep the BMW drive-line, try to find a 88-89 735 with a manual tranny in a wrecking yard and get the diff. it uses a 3.55:1 gear-set instead of the 2.90's to 3.08's the auto's use. If you must use the T-350/400, dont waste your time trying to mate it to the stock IRS rear-end, just yank it all and install a Ford 9 inch on leaf springs. All and all, this may actually be the easiest way, but the BEAUTIFULL handling [potential] of the stock "6" IRS will be lost forever. Here's a thought... Look up www.jahnscars.com They specialize in kits that let you drop a SBC/BBC/T-350/400 into a classic Jaguar. If you ask the right person, they may know of someone who has sucessfully droped a T-350-400 into a BMW. It's a long shot, but worth a try. I hope some of this is helpfull Good luck, and let us know what you decide :TU:
If you do the mod... You kinda have to use the Buick mags, dontcha? Guess that would take more modding. I am personally not real into the blingin' 19-26" rims, nor "billet" But you have to build it! There is a post or thread here about someone who wants/is doing this with his Jaguar with a 455 or something, and I think somewhere on the web is an example of someone who did do it. My two cents.
Thanks Guys! With your encouragement, this is a go ahead project! After doing more thinking about this project and trying to anticipate the larger issues, let me answer a few questions and put forth some opinions. First, let me say a big THANK YOU! to Darryl Roederer for the time he took to post all of that info! Wonderful Darryl and thanks again. I figure that cooling could be handled by either an off the shelf size or possibly custom aluminum radiator with either dual electric fans or the Chevy truck 454 fan and clutch I have seen recommended so many times on this board. If the truck fan won't fit, we'll have to go with the electrics. Most manufacturers of aluminum radiators can custom fab pretty much anything...for a price. I'd like to keep an air conditioning set up in this thing. It isn't as hot here in Reno as many other places in Nevada, but hey, I figure if my GS and her Formula can run A/C, so can the BMW. As far as gauges and information, the BMW has an "Info Center" in the dash on the driver's side. Lot's of idiot lights that could easily be eliminated or replaced with truly informative items. It's about 5 x 6 inches if I remember correctly. Looks like enough room for 4 gauges in a custom panel. I don't recall offhand exactly what the dash layout is for speedo and tach but I figured to go with an aftermarket matched set in a custom panel. One of the things this whole project will do, aside from becoming totally illegal as far as the smog Nazi's are concerned, is eliminate all of the computer controls. I figure either an MSD Ready-to-Run distributor or an HEI driving an MSD box is about as electronic as this thing will be. Depending on the factory fuel pump pressure, I may just use that with a regulator and the factory return line. I have though A LOT about transmissions. Somehow, the cool factor (very high!) of using the BMW factory unit doesn't seem to be enough to cover the hassle factor (also very high). I'll take some measurements when this thing comes apart to see just how far apart the engine and trans mounting and mating points are. Assuming the BMW piece isn't used, perhaps an appropriately modded 200R4 should go in rather than the T-400 or T-350. That would give me both better milage and higher potential top speed. A custom 'shaft is obviously necessary this way to mate the trans and whatever diff is used. I think if I can do the IRS diff, I can get away fairly easily with using a custom, one piece drive shaft since it won't have to move up and down with the rear end. (Darryl, what makes you say don't waste my time trying to connect this to the stock diff?) Regarding the diff, from what I have gathered looking at some of the BMW enthusiast sites (other than most BMW enthusiasts don't get their hands dirty uzzled: ) is that the biggest problem with higher powered cars in the 3, 5 and 6 Series is the upper mount between the body and the actual diff. It tends to tear out, which could be a slight problem..... There are ways and kits to reinforce this area, and I absolutely LOVE the handling poetential of the stock IRS. I also think that the 7 Series carrier would be strong enough to handle a mild BBB, particularly with an auto trans. I have a suspicion that this is going to either end up with some custom Mustang/T-Bird/Vette IRS setup or a 9 inch on leaf springs with a custom back half frame before the breakage is cured. Wheels and tires will be the biggest (Widest/Tallest) tire that goes under the fenders with the lips rolled on a wheel that looks as close to the stockers as I can find. I do kinda like the idea of the Buick Ralleys though...... I'll try to post some before pics of the car as requested. Basically, the 6 Series is a 2 door 7 Series, just a bit smaller. Bigger than the 5 Series though. Hey! Bet this won't cost near as much as the M-5 I have lusted after for about 5 years now! :3gears: :beer
gotta do the Ralley wheel!!! :shock: After all, even though they came on every cool Buick from the 60's and 70's and have little variation, is there anyone on this board that gets tired of seeing them on Buicks? It's one of the best styling aspects with our Boo's I think. Besides, with the low-pro of this car, wouldn't large rims look silly? Could anyone photoshop this idea and post it to this thread? I would but I don't have any photo editing software. Here is a pic of a Beemer 6 series:
Just talked to one of my BMW friends who is very knowledgable about the 6's. First off, the 6 uses a "conventional" universal joint. That changes considerably what I said above. In other words, go for it!!!!!!!! All you will really need is a customdrive-shaft! There is however another small matter you will have to contend with. The BMW driveshaft uses permanently mounted, "un-serviceable" universal joints. In order to replace a universal joint, your required to purchase a whole new 'shaft, at a cost of about $5-700... OUCH! Here's what I'm trying to say. You take your existing "6" drive-shaft, and cut it in half, then weld the front half of a GM shaft onto it so you can hook it up to the T-400 that you have installed in your car. OK, now, let's say you just spent $200 for your custom drive-shaft... Then a few months later, the U-joint in the BMW side goes bad.... Now you have to shell out $500-$700 for a "new" BMW shaft, then ANOTHER $200 to have it cut and welded to hook it to the T-400... See where I'm going??? The best option in my opinion is to have a competent machine shop "bore" the pinion receiver to a "common" size so you can use good old fashoned replaceable american U-joints, and just go with a "full custom" driveshaft. According to my friend, the rear universal is held on the diff with "girdles" that take 3 bolts. It should be possible to fabricate new girdles from aluminum billet, then the machine shop could re-size the whole thing to a common size, as I stated above. As far as the diff breaking loose from the body mount, well, yes. That is a weakpoint in the beammer. Bavarian autosports sells a re-inforcing bracket, and this would be a must for you. In all honesty, it's really only a problem in the manual tranny cars. I think "drive line shock" from banging the gears is to blame. With an auto, and the distinct lack of traction you will be facing, I'd be willing to bet you wont have any problems... Provided you install the re-inforcing bracket! Mount a set of slicks on it, and all bets are off. I'd still try to find a manual tranny 735-il diff for the good gears. You can buy performance gears for BMW's, but they are *CRAZY* expensive!!! For cooling, I still stand behind the idea of an M-6 radiator being sufficent, as the "M" series cars are, quite simply, de-tuned race cars... No question it has one hell of a good radiator,,, and it's off the shelf! No point even trying to salvage the BMW computer, just scrap it all. Of course this will mandate aftermarket guages as everything on the BMW dash is tied to the computer. For that matter, just about everything electrical on a BMW is tied to the computer. Your gonna spend lots of late nights trying to get all the systems to work independently,,, headlights, interior lights, back up lights, fuel pump, etc. Might even be worth-while to buy an aftermarket fuse block and just start from scratch. While were on this electrical subject, lets talk A/C... Uuuum.... Wow, I dont even know where to start. If your lucky enough to get the entire heat/ac system to opperate independent of the computer and on it's own fused line, your home free. If not, fegetaboutit o No: In that case, it would be best to "jam" the system into defrost, and run the blower motor on a separate switch so you can at least get some use out of it. At this point, I hope your starting to get a feel for why I was encouraging you to keep it as much BMW as possible... IMHO it would be much simpler to fool the computer into closed loop and JUST replace the engine... But either way would work just fine... And your way might be a little easier if you dont "speak computer". [for the record, I dont either, I just know a few tricks and keep pluging away at it untill I'm sucessfull] It's gonna be one really cool and fun ride when it's finished, and I'll be happy to help as much as possible :TU:
When I put a 229 into a 4WD Samurai, the local driveshaft shop charged me $40.00 a piece for custom driveshafts. One of which has a Buick yoke on one end and a Suzuki yoke on the other end. My other driveshafts were shortened and ballanced. Just make sure your U-joints can handle the load or this will happen. (srry for the chevy emblem)
