no-start issues, not a moment too soon!

I was planning on taking the car on a trip to see family, but I guess it just didn't want to go

Before I even had a chance to find this forum, sign up here and do much reading, I already ran into an ignition(?) problem: it ran just fine on Sunday, but when I wanted to move it on Tuesday, no start. It cranks just fine, and my first guess is that it's not getting any spark. I had checked the plugs that weekend and all was well...I realize it's possible that the fuel delivery could have given out, but either way I couldn't have expected it. Does anyone have a minute to help me troubleshoot?
-should I be smelling gas at either end/both ends of the car after cranking?
-is there any fuse between the battery and the plugs?
-where is my fuel pump? Is any other component inline with it?
-should I pay attention to both voltage AND impedance values when checking electrical parts?


Hey, at least it's not leaking anything, right?

 

Pull the coil wire from the dist, hold it near a ground(nothing with fuel in it) and have a friend turn it over. Got spark? Yes-Good, NO -bad. Look down the carb, pull the throttle open. see and gas spray in there. Yes-good No-bad. narrow it down and let us know. Oh, and welcome to the board!

 

Welcome,
Sorry , to hear about your trouble. What year and engine? What model?

 

My name is Steve, and to be honest, I didn't know anything about points distributors or carburetors 6 weeks ago. A week before Labor Day I bought a 1970 GS350 and I'm still confident that it won't be too much for me, but I have a lot of electrical work to do, and some rust to deal with. Behind the dash this thing is a mess, and I'm going to just tackle the most important problem one at a time until it all works! Anybody know where I can get a proper repair manual? So far I've only found one for the Chevelle, '69-'87 from Haynes, and I brought that home because both are GM midsize and, well, I needed the reading material.

I grew up south of Flint, MI and I am currently in Huntsville, AL. I hope to drive my new (old) car back home with me sometime soon. Maybe even hit up the Dream

I found your other post and copied here. I don't know about 'A' body cars. There are people on here that do know. This is the place to ask all your questions.

 

thanks bulldog! I forgot about the car info when I split this thread off from my intro post

as far as I know from checking out a few numbers, this car is pretty close to original. It's got the 350 small block driving a T-350 auto trans, Quadrajet carb, and I believe it was assembled in MO

 

It's getting sparks. I couldn't see a spray of fuel when I looked, but then I don't know where exactly it will be coming from. I did see a small puddle of fuel inside the carb, and smelled fuel again, so I have to guess that's working, right?
No start.
I checked all the plug gaps, and replaced the #2 plug because it was cracked and I managed to break it very easily...started checking voltage (12.28V at the hot side of the coil) and impedance on plugs & wires.
well anyway, no start.
should I further check out the coil, distributor, or fuel pump?
any other suggestions?

 

is the Dist. spinning and in time. Useualy if ya got spark and fuel it should at least try to start. Look at the points and condenser. Good luck!

 

yeah...I got nothin. everything worked one day, and didn't work the next.

 

Neutral safety switch? or transmission in gear? Out of fuel? Starter solenoid issue? Distributor timing issue like points of condensor?

 

If you're getting a good healthy spark the coil, points and condenser are likely not the offending source. Check your base timing and make sure the distributor hold down bolt is tight, and that the distributor hasn't self-rotated on you and thrown off ignition timing.

As for the fuel pump, disconnect the fuel hose from the line leading to the carb, place the end of it in a pint size or larger glass jar, and crank the motor over. You should get a nice stream of gas which should fill the jar at a rate of approximately one pint every 30 seconds. If nothing comes out or it's weak, your pump is likely shot or there could be a fuel line restriction / obstruction or leak. If the pump passes, and gas squirts into the bottom of the primaries with the car off while you move the throttle to wide open ('floored') position, the problem is not likely fuel delivery. If the pump passes but you don't get any fuel in the carb, it could be float, inlet needle valve jammed shut, or a major obstruction in the filter (have you changed it?) or carb internals somewhere. An overnight quitting like this however would indicate the pump as the most likely culprit if ignition system is properly functioning and set correctly.

Another more remote possibility is your timing chain may have jumped the gears (which can happen especially if one or two teeth - they're made out of hard nylon and get brittle with age - have broken off) and thrown off valve timing. Much more likely it's an ignition or fuel issue(s), though.

 

X2 on making sure you have gas in the tank - we've all overlooked this on occasion. Neutral safety switch failure or bad solenoid would not allow car to be cranked at all. OP mentioned his car cranks fine, but won't start.

 

fuel:
It appears that the fuel pump was just dying, because when I started taking lines off of it, all that came out was a few drops of gas. I smelled fuel every time I checked earlier, but it must have just been fumes of what was left between the pump and carb coming out the jets.

I siphoned enough fuel from the line feeding the pump to ignore the possibility of a problem back there for now, but I'm waiting on a new pump for the next couple days, then I will know more.

ignition:
my distributor, as I bought it and as it ran just fine, appears to be set up 45deg late...firing order is correct but wired starting with plug #1 connected to the 2nd spot (where plug #8 should be). Anybody ever see that before? On this cap the "1" is marked on the inside and it is the first socket immediately clockwise from the adjustment door on the cap.

Twice today, after releasing the key from the "start" position, the starter let go of the flywheel and accelerated to terminal velocity. I pulled the battery cable to stop it, and found a short within an inch or two of the starter. insulation coming off the wire, occasional sparking at that location, and of course doesn't seem to affect the lack of fuel up top (haha!). It will get fixed separately, but my stepdad told me he couldn't remember that EVER happening to him or hearing that it happened to his dad back in the day. Just thought I'd ask, has that happened to anybody here?

 

You said the car was running fine before so the timing MUST have been within a few degrees of perfect. If someone dropped the dist. in one tooth of then they may have moved the wires to correct this.

You are going to want to put the plugs back on the cap the way they were... Your only other option is to pull the dist out of the timing cover and re-install it correctly. There is no harm to run the plug wires one terminal over as long as you can get the timing set correctly.

While you are waiting for the fuel pump try to add a bit of fuel into the small vent tube coming up out of the top of the carb... I use a tiny funnel. Try starting the engine but make sure you put the air filter back on first. If the engine starts then your issue was fuel and the fuel pump should fix it.

I hope this helps

 

It did run for a moment with a bit of fuel dropped into the carb...forgot to mention that. Makes me feel like this car is getting more and more 'unique' every day, all these odd things going on. You'll have to forgive me, I'm just now learning about cars that don't have pump-in-tank fuel systems and whatnot.

 

No need to agologize... Here at V8 Buick we treat all people with respect and help them allong no matter what experiences they have... I was a total rookie at this few years ago and the members here helped me get up to speed.

 

Ive been learning about cars that do have in tank pumps. What a pain!

 

another bit of info I can't find yet...is the fuel pump driven by a pushrod or directly by its cam? I didn't know to look for a pushrod, but haven't found one...yet

 

there's a lobe on the engine's camshaft in front, under the timing cover that drives it. It's circular, but eccentric, so as it goes around, it sort of wobbles, pushing the lever of the pump up and down and pumping fuel.

 

take care when reinstalling the pump or installing the new pump, make sure the lever arm is below the cam lobe or you will have disasterous effects! I have not installed one wrong yet, but i was warned as i am warning you. I hope this helps

 

it runs like a refrigerator, all I gotta do now is figure out how to attach my red portable gas can to the fender...and stop for refueling every 20 miles or less
:rant:

I've blown through the fuel lines without finding a definite plug, although I am concerned about the line going over the rear axle. hopefully i will find a clogged pickup screen inside the tank?


--thank you guys again for your input, I'm learning a lot really quickly and I'm very glad to have guidance