No call to the lanes this September? your opinion?

I was reading in my info packet that the pairings WILL NOT be called to the lanes for the shootouts this September.
Huge Mistake, Sorry Dan&Bob, I really respect both of you, LOVE the race,and everyone that I have met over the years, but myself and several others have been discussing this plan over the phone, and so far I haven't talked with one person who thinks changing the format is a good idea.

We've spent years getting people trained how to get into the correct lanes, get paired with their opponent for the 2/3 shootout,etc., and now with as high as the car count is, we want to create mass chaos

Several of us feel this will be a ClusterF***, and feel that the program should be run the same way it alway's has, and it's not too late to rectify this before September.

Let's hear from the racers.......
How do you feel this is going to work?
Good idea
or
Bad idea?

Let's do a Poll

Again, I realize this is Dan & Bob's sandbox,and their rules, but at the same time I think it will be a much more pleasant sandbox to play in together if we keep it simple and familiar.

 

Thanks for the info
I wonder the reason for not calling

 

I'm with ya on this 1 Tom,i thought it's always worked very well the way its been done in the past.

 

I, too, agree it should be left as is. I like having the pairings numbered for the order they're matched and run.

 

I haven't gotten the packet yet, so didn't read this. I quess I wonder what the thinking is behind the change?o No:

 

Leave it as is ..... the proverbial saying -- "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." :beer

 

I'm not so sure Dan and Bob are making these changes. Don't know who is. Last year there was the change printed and on the wesite in the breakout policy (only that round not the match) and also that FULL roller rockers were prohibited meaning I guess, that roller tipped rockers like Comp cams were allowable. I was told that neither change was correct, but too late to change the rules then.

I haven't checked those two in the the new 2008 rules. I was directly affected by both those changes in the past. I hope they got rectified or there's agreement that those changes are in effect now. No biggee, but having been matched up with two big time sandbaggers in the last few years (not last year) it definitely would have in one of them. Red lights decided the other one.

Update: Just read the 2008 rules on these and guess what? Not corrected from last year. Don't be surprised if I go home early if I get matched up against another much faster car. What's the point? If you can't push a faster car to cut lights with you and take the danger of wheelspin, or redlight, the slower car doesn't have a prayer except by luck. My red light in one of them was a .496 and I won by over 6 car lengths running my number all out even though I was 10 MPH slower. Left two lights early in the other one and I won that by even more as he ran 0.8 faster than me (and 10 MPH faster) in the first round. That was my "handicap" as the match was already over. Agreement was to let me leave first and run me down. Like the other one, big tire spin. Only hope to beat those cars.

Might as well go back to bracket racing, put the Mickey Thompsons back on and put better brakes on the car.

Not happy about this. At least in Factory Stock at the FAST meets the redlight factor is all but eliminated by the Pro Tree.

 

I believe at least the last two Martin races had no call to lanes. You just paired up with your shootout opponent each round and ran when you got to the front of the line. I had no problem either year with that system. It gave more time for time trials etc. I liked it.
I believe I read we will run all three rounds of shootouts this year at Stanton. I have no problem with that either. Last year I broke out by .32 in round 1. Dave and I ran the other two shootouts though not sure if my breakout cost me the round or the race. When the results were posted I won the shootout based on a .35 breakout rule for that race. Most likely due to the very brisk headwind during qualifying. If Dave had been awarded the win, I'd be fine with that too.
We wait all year for these events. I'm in no hurry to park the car on race day. The crowd gets a better show etc. The only drawback is that drivers don't get to see much, if any shootout action.
Any time I have a rules question, I call or email Dan. He always gets back to me right away. No complaints here.

 

The problem with Martin was my guy disappeared to the pits and did come back to pair up for 55 minutes because he was too busy trying to put a tune on his car. I had to find the guy and tell him where I was when he was ready, waiting in a lane.

Dan and Bob are having issues because the racers don't assemble when they are called. 3 hour process for those guys to get the race under way.

I've suggested to Dan to have a driver meeting early Saturday. During the driver meeting, hand out group numbers made by et qualifications instead of pairings. example group I = 15.50et to 14.75 et, group II 14.74et to 14.30 etc... Call the groups independently each with (30 cars per group, 5 groups= 150 cars) and match the cars in the group and organise the ones that are there in front of you. If you are not at the group gathering when your group is called, you're out with the assumption you're either broke or gone home. So how does it work when your group is called you say????? Well the cars are put in pairings at that time. If no car 15 on Dans list is present than 16 will move into that position and the pairing will continue to be adjusted from their. As a driver you will need to know your group number and make an effort to be at the appropriate spot when your group is called.


As a driver you will have no idea who you will race for sure until Saturday. Only from the group showing up and pairings being made from those present will you then find who is your competater. :TU:

Jim

 

Leave it alone. I usually can't hear the call anyway, but someone closer to the loud speakers always tips me off just the same. JMO

Dave H: You can always do what I did to Rapid Ralph a couple of years ago when his car would always run right by me. After listening to his bragging for 2 days at the Mopar Nats, I paired up with him in a T&T run. I left when he tripped the first staging beam. It was hilarious (to me anyway), the gal at the time booth was so pissed at me, that she wouldn't even give me a slip. The only reason I wanted one, was to see what his reaction time was. I still laugh about it every time I remember the look on his face back in the pits.:Brow:

 

Steve:

I would have loved to see that. That's a great plan and I'll keep that in my memory just in case for next year if i get another bad match. Like i said, I'll go for it on a pro tree as the red light factor isn't there and we're both on the same page there. Not with a sportsman where I have to have a perfect run to even have a chance against someone who can sit back then nail it and fly past anytime he wants.

When I ran the Commerce Challenge a few years back, I was DQ'd for wearing shorts as I had left my pullovers on the trailer in my rush after the photo shoots. Tried to sneak it through but the starter guy threw me out.

No biggee since the rules had been changed from our 2/3 shootouts to a ladder with #16 v #1. I was #16, at something in the mid 14's after a big spin in qualifying. Gessler was #1, in the low 11's. Try to imagine my enthusiasm at running against a car 3 seconds faster than me in a heads up race.

Considered trying it Bill Clinton style with my shorts down around my ankles to cover my bare legs, but that would have been totally impossible to explain......or live down. This was bad enough.

Had a great idea given to me by another Pure Stocker that will go unnamed, but he drove a very fast yellow Yenko and was from the Arkansas/Missouri area. He was sent back to the pits earlier for no sleeves on his tee shirt, :laugh: :laugh:

He had told me to not even stop at the lights, just keep right on going. There was no hesitation on my part and that was going to happen. I was going to let him move up the lights first, then fly right on by. Just like he would have to me anyway before half track. I like your plan better. Really drives the point home better.

Stay tuned! I'm almost hoping it will happen!:bglasses: :bglasses: :bglasses:

 

Sorry to hear you had problems at Martin. I'll go with whatever the race organizers want. As more cars show up, a few more problems of this type will crop up. I have also at times been puzzled as to why some drivers are so hard to get hold of when it's race time. There is no silver bullet. Just have to make the best of it.

 

If I would of known that the guys was going to take that long, I would of been in the bleacher watching and enjoying, not standing by the car. Between that and a .400 light with the 4 speed, it was a long day. I need to pull out a practice tree for Martin I guess.

Steve, maybe they need a golf cart to run through the pits to the announcements at Stanton?

As far as guys sandbagging, I can't do it. I try to go as quick as I can all weekend. This year I ran Neil Robbins that had done the same and it was great racing. I could care little if I loose in great racing. When it's close it's awesome.:beer

Jim

 

I agree. Baggers will always be around. :spank: Just gotta live with it. I do like the pro tree though.

 

Agreed on baggers always being there, but why is the change to only forfeiting that round better than the match? I've done that a coupla times myself, and almost a third time (remember Martin, Pegeg?) Each time it was a result of poor qualifying when you only have specific qualifying runs, not using the best run of the practice day. That's a great rule.

I don't know where to draw the line, I agree running .32 under would be a shame and can easily happen with the weather changes from day to day. But not all are that close. Maybe a two level one? 0.3 to 0.5 under loses that round, more than 0.5 forfeits the entire match.

What's with the 0.30 being changed to an 0.35 for that race? I don't recall that being mentioned at the drivers meeting.

In the case of the two rule changes from last year that I mentioned, both Dan and Bob agreed that change was an error, should not have been made, and the old rules apply. But no mention of it in the drivers' meeting or anywhere else. Again, I ask, who's making these changes and why can't errors be corrected? o No: o No:

 

I just want to make it clear that I didn't start this post to bash the PSMCDR or it's organizers in any way,shape,or form.

This POLL was started to see if the racers feel this NO CALL to the lanes is a good idea, or should the race be run as it always has?

Guy's, I hate sandbaggers too, but I don't want to see this POLL turned into a slam fest to bash the PSMCDR, it's rules, or orgnanizers.

Thanks,
Tom

 

No bashing here. As I said it's their event. They do a great job. I'll go with whatever the Martin or Stanton rules are. I think I got lucky by the .35 for last Sept. I would've been happy either way. We (mostly I) were not sure of the round vs shootout rule, so we ran three rounds. I like that if they do it this year too; win or lose.
Some cars/ combos are more finicky when it comes to weather. I know mine is. I think the big headwind on Friday affected me more than it did my opponent; therefore I picked up alot on Saturday. If the rule was/ is .3, so be it. Ya win some and lose some. You can look at the spreadsheets over the years. I think red lights decide more races than any one factor. I've certainly had my share. That's racin'. :TU:

 

I think the small block cars are more sensitive to weather conditions. A few years back at Brad's race in Salem, when Rob was driving my car, it picked up almost 0.5 seconds from qualifying on Friday to the shootouts on Saturday. Can't recall how he avoided the breakout rule, but we were matched against another 4 speed car and I know it redlighted once and think the other was decided by a missed shift. Being an uncanny bracket racer, he watches his mirrors very closely.

In a match race afterward against a pesky green car, it ran the 0.5 sec faster than the qualifying time and best run of the day before.

I seem to recall in my automotive engineering courses at U of M in another lifetime, that 80-90% of the hp requirements to propel a car is to overcome air drag at speeds over 60 MPH. At lower speeds, rolling resistance is the primary factor, but remains pretty constant and independent of speed.

Small blocks do not have a lot of torque down low, especially high revving ones, and rely on the top end hp for performance more than big blocks which have gobs of torque relatively speaking including down low. That makes their et's more sensitive to weather conditions. There are exceptions, of course. Air quality as well as winds really affect the small blocks.

A closer comparison of the effect would probably be seen in the trap speeds.

 

No bashing intended here either. Just wonder why these rules are changing, and based upon the two I mentioned, wonder who is really making them. Both Bob and Dan (and Dennis for that matter) were surprised about it when I spoke with them at Martin last year. o No: o No:

You can have an opinion and voice it without it being a bash. The ACLU hasn't totally taken over the country yet. :rant: