If you enlarge the oil suction passage to 5/8", purchase the correct oil pickup as well. Come to think of it, you'll probably have to get rid of the center sump oil pan anyway, so get a 455 rear sump oil pan and corresponding 5/8" pick up. Good riddance of the center sump pan anyway. Makes oil control even tougher. Hopefully a rear sump pan will work in the wagon. Devon
I like stuff like this. I'm thinking if everything went your way with a true stock engine you could sneak into the 13's by a smidge. 95 MPH might be optimistic but 90 should be doable and that will be enough if everything is working. I am going to assume you know your way around cars, not necessarily Buicks. It will be a bit tougher if you're just getting into this because this will be a finesse type thing not just a plug-and-play that the computer generation expects. If you're not planning on playing around and working at it don't plan on making it. Whatever the car weighs the BBB will add about 100+ lbs. It will still be lower than a typical GS/Skylark. My '78 Regal weighed 3550 but was not stripped so it is possible to get it pretty low if you go after it. Unless you say the car originally came with an OD trans I'd say the gears were probably 2.73's. The good news is you can find cheap factory 7.5" gears and posi's from Camaro/Firebird's all over E-Bay up to 3.73's. The 7.5 will hold up fine for your use. The 29's are going to be a very close fit if at all in the back. For your use a set of 26" drag radials will be the best. Stay in that range of height whatever you get. Here is where Craigslsit can be you friend because somebody is always selling something like that for cheap. I wouldn't worry about a rebuild just to have some fun. I would drop the oil pan while the engine is out (Make sure it is upright on the engine stand so junk doesn't fall into the engine, once the pan is off you can flip it over.) just to clean up the sump and pickup screen. If you can get a 5/8" pickup(TA or used) and bolt it on. That would be easy to do at that time. If you want to get excited pop the timing cover off and put a fresh stock timing chain set back on. The chain is probably stretched and the gear if it is plastic it may be coming apart which they were prone to do. (If you find little plastic pieces in the pan the gear is shot.) If you are serious take the intake off and block the heat crossover passages going to the carb.(You can always do that later while it is in the car.) Inspect the bottom of the rocker arm shafts for MAJOR wear. The older aluminum rockers wear the shafts. If not too bad re-install them. Now, the thing you MUST do to keep the engine alive is get your hands on a Stage 1/60psi oil pump spring. Yours will only be a 40 psi from the factory. If you get a thrust plate for the oil pump that would include one. You can always install the thrust plate later(easy to do when the engine is out) but you MUST get that spring. Something else you MUST do is run 20-50 oil. Regular oil is fine. Those two things will help keep the bearings alive. Been there/done that back in the 70's. Oil pressure and water temp gauges. I'd say go to a 160 thermostat right off the bat. If you are going to drag race only and not really drive it on street much the factory radiator may do but on the street it could get hot up. Get a pair of electric fans to save some HP and keep it cool. The 2.25 exhaust may be a little restrictive so what I would do is spend the money on some 2.5" mandrel bent down pipes from TA or Torque Tech. You can add some flanges to them so they are easy to unhook at the track and open it up. No doubt get the distributor set up right according to the thread. Don't forget the new limiter bushing as yours is probably rotted and gone. Hopefully you know your way around a Q-Jet. Get the secondary air door to open to a full 90 if it isn't and adjust the tension just right. Probably need some richer secondary rods. Pick up a 4-hole spacer for under the carb. Hopefully out of wood or phenolic to keep heat out of it. That will be worth some nice power throughout your rev range. Speaking of that, as was said, keep the revs to 5000 and you'll be safe. The stock springs will keep you there and the stock cam will make it unnecessary to go any higher. Shifting around 4800 will probably be best for ET's. If you use your 29" tires and you only hit the 95 I figure and actualy have 2.73's you may never get out of 2nd in the quarter. Don't forget to add a few hundrd rpm for converter slip when you do you calculations. As far as the trans goes a T350 will make you life a good bit easier when doing the swap. The 400 will require some extra work to fit including changing driveshaft length. A cheap way to pick up some stall is to just use a factory T350 converter in place of the T400 unit. Good for a few hundred. What engine/trans does the wagon have now? If it had a V8 it may have a T350 but would probably only fit a Chevy. If it is a V6 it probably has a 200 which doesn't help. I'd hit Craigslist for a BOP T350 that is in decent shape and install a good shift kit. That should work fine. Also check Craigslist for a decent used converter. Any kind of generic 12" 2000-2500 stall unit will do. If you must, buy a new one for $100-200. It will live fine for this. Check E-Bay, Summit or Jegs. The T350 unit will also work in a T400 if you go that way. I think a converter is going to be necessary have a chance to hit your goals. In fact with 3.23's(if that is what you have) it will be worth more than going to 3.73's especially with 26" tires. You're going the right way with the weight loss and power using devices. Get rid of the front swaybar if it is there. If the front shocks are worn out keep them. If not get some adjustable 60-40 to 90-10 shocks from Summit. Rears at this point are not that big of a deal. Just another comment. This type of thread would be better served in the BBB area or maybe even better start one up in the Regal area. Not many people actually check out the Newbie section. Don't forget the search function on this site is your friend and also you can Google just about anything and get some info. I'm afraid too many people think they need information that is specifically about their project when there is plenty of good general information out there with just a search. In this thread Jon built himself up a very nice 455 Regal wagon: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?226083-What-a-Milestone! It actually used to be mine when it was stock(Familiar color?) and looked ok but never that good and he really went wild on it. If you do some searching under his site name you will find he's now painted it a red color.
I drove it with a bone stock 455 but never to the track, it had more torque below 1500 for sure without nitrous my 60 was 1.75 and with nitrous I would 60 from 1.78-1.95s my converter broke and smoked my trans so 60s were wildly different.
Started writing my previous thread over an hour ago and stuff got mixed in since. First of all forget the Nitrous for now. If you need Nitrous to get a fairly mild 430 into the 13's then you shouldn't be messing with it. When everything else is straightened up then maybe. The stock pistons will take it. Just make sure you have a great fuel system for it. Learn to walk before you run. Good point Devon on the possible center sump pan. Doc, I'm thinking there are plenty of people running 12:1 compression and higher and not popping head gaskets these days. But what brought up 12:1 anyway? Forgot in the last post to add a fresh set of plugs and a cheap used MSD 6 box from E-Bay connected to your points.
Thanks Devon went outside and it is a center sump- im looking for a rear sump now. Not sure if it will fit in the wagon bay with the center sump. I took some pictures of the bay. Well my friends are helping out with old racing junk they have laying around. My one friend has a couple th350 convetors he said i could have, a stock one and a 3800 stall. Think that is too much stall. I have a 200r4 that i got from an 88 olds cutlass- didn't think it would hold up. I also have that driveshaft and one that was cut for a 700r4. I also got the rear end out that cutlass- we did the turn the rim count the turns- so I dont know the exact ratio. I have a new radiator and electric fan setup to go in. Thanks no lift and 462 chevelle for the good info. I am going to get a couple more things together, take some pictures, and start up a new thread in the v8regal area. THANKS EVERY ONE! It really means a lot! Cheap Hot Rods Rule! Now I have a lot of reading to do! :beers2:
In spite of all the factory holes that are already drilled in the frame for engine mounts you will still have to drill new ones for a BBB motor mounts.
You WILL need the rear sump to go into a G-Body. I see a fat swaybar in that pic that needs to go. Also don't forget about Doc's(and one of my) favorite ways of low cost HP: a nice Cold Air setup.
As far as that rear end goes and staying in your budget, back when I still had a 2.76 open 8.2" 10 bolt in my Skylark, I put an air bag in the right rear spring with 25#, put my spare over that side for added ballast, and pulled off a 12.91 @107. That was on 10" wide Mickey Thompson ET street radials and had tubular trailing arms on it. If you really want to stay under $1500, I'd perhaps try that method first before ponying up for a limited slip differential.
Ya i cant believe that zero of the holes in the crossmember will line up. I am going to do the paint trick and make a new lower mount or just weld it on. The sway bar is coming off. I added the bars to the crossmember and core support. I am looking for a trailer hitch for the rear. I heard it helps with the flex for the back of wagons/g bodys. I might try it with no posi first as I have a bag in the spring. I am trying to remeber what year the break was for the correct spline posi 87? Didn't f bodys get the auburn and s10s get gov locs or something? Plan on hitting a couple of u-picks this week for "stuff".
Putting a 430 into a G-bodied car is actually pretty easy. I used a stock 455 out of a 69 electra into a cutlass and ran 13.80's. Stock exhaust manifolds, stock intake, factory quadrajet, stock cam, factory torque converter, turbo 350 trans, 26 inch street slicks, 3:42 gears in rear with limited slip. Actually broke limited slip diff. first time out. Through mufflers. Sounded factory. Smoked the crank because I didn't know about the oil mods at that time. By using the stock torque converter with the factory cam with gears I didn't have much low rpm hp but an ungodly amount of low rpm torque. Lifters started ticking because I had the factory cam bearings. I would tear down the 430, install grooved cam bearings, do oil mods, regasket everything, check the bearings, 26 inch slicks will fit under a g-body better than 28's, 3:42 gears, air bags on both sides to help eliminate wheel hop, factory converter, tach, and this would keep you way under budget with money to spare. Also need big radiator and electric fans. You can use the 350 trans in its factory location and the 430 flywheel will bolt to the 350 converter. Just bolt the 430 to the 350 trans and mark your motor mount locations. I also found the limited slip diff in a mid 80's camaro with disc brakes. Since most g-bodies have 7.5 ring gears with 26 spline axles I only had to change the bearing on the pinion gear. Actually used the bearing from the old pinion gear. My right rear valve cover just barely clears the firewall and the left exhaust manifold clears the steering arm by about two inches. The real fun is when you spank a new mustang or a big block chevy.:3gears:
BBB has it going on,,,, Listen to him.... the Buick engines are tork monsters, not rpm engines....do the oil mods,,, it is a absolute must.... and then Read the tach.... put a rev limiter, what ever is neccessary to keep from over reving....I would rev my nailhead up to 6000 on occasion and never had a problem,,, but when I did that with a stage 1, it stacked the mains.... not good.....and then there is the double whammy with the oil having no zinc in it anymore....:Brow::rant: be sure to add zddp every time you do a oil change....
What cam bearing mods are you guys doing? I am worried that this is going to snowball once I start going that far into the engine. If it needs cam bearings, why not do a cam? How about switching the lifters and pushrods for the later style oiling? I would love to do it the right way-I usually find it cheaper that way in the long run. But we are just trying to throw this together for fun-low budget test. bbb455 How high where you reving it when it swipped the crank? Im going to use the th400 it came with. I had planned on doing what no lift said about adding oil pump spring, thrust plate and the timing chain mod.
Even if you have to replace cam bearings and the camshaft, I would stick with the original 430 design, oiling through the heads and not the pushrods. The 430 rockers are probably the best of all the original big block Buick designs as far as durability goes. If you have to switch over to the later oiling through the pushrods, we can talk about what you'd have to do to keep the 430 rockers. It involves some work to plug up the oiling holes and it would be some work. Devon
If you dont drill the oil pick up holes to 5/8'' and put a 5/8'' pick up tube in , that things gonna grenade :Brow: I ran a experimintal Buick oil pump in my 430 stage 2 that had gears that were exactly twice as long as the stock gears and it held together.... got the pump thru Kennedy-Bell.... used the stock rockers,,, did not have any problem with the rockers/pushrods/shafts..... it idled at 90 psi though.....busted the first oil pressure gage,,, started the engine up one cold frosty morning to move the car and blew the oil filter completely off the car, when i blipped the throttle to keep it from dying....:Brow::laugh:Once the engine completely warmed up,, no problem.... had to put a 200 psi gage in it to keep it from breaking... never broke the bottom end of this engine,,,, what I broke was my 70 stage 1 daily driver that the previous owner had used 5w/20w in... dont use thin oil....for racing only,,, K-B recommended straight 50 wt... but that was before they learned not to build them loose.....when I would fire the stage 2 , untill it warmed up, you could hear the pistons ''click'',,, then they got quiet... but they were forged JE's..... now you know why I am a nailhead man.....:laugh:
Just for arguments sake, if I was going to replace the cam bearings-which would lead to a cam. What cam would you run? Lets assume stock convertor 323 gears 3400lbs stock intake, cast exh manifolds? Would it really be worth anything in a combo like this? I know this might be opening another can of worms? Remember we are trying to keep it low budget. Thanks
the best way to race cheap is to whine, cry,,,, and mooch parts.... and do as much as you can do yourself.... make friends with mechanics.... buy and part out cars that have stuff on them that you can use.... I have never parted a car out that I did not make money on.....
When I got this 430 the plan was just to throw it in the wagon- get a whole car to snatch all the little pieces and just see what it goes- 13s was the plan. We really didn't even want to clean it! I told my buddies about the oil mods. Now my friends are trying to tell me to keep it in the electra and fix the rear frame and keep it around. I think they fell in love with the cigar lighters on the seats and the tailfins. And shove a 396 (needs to be put back together) or 4.8ls that we have in the wagon. I wanted to try something a little change of pace. But I don't want to tear the 430 down to a rotating assembly to fix its oiling issues..... aka snowball into another money pit.... Thanks to a member on here I have found the right pan so that isn't an issue. So what to do? Guess I need to make up my mind. Thanks for the information guys! ou:
hmmmm,,, and I gave away a 455..... but what ever you do , dont put a chevy engine in that Buick ,,, that is like cussing in church..... besides the chevy engine wont have the tork at low enough rpm to move that big car... just hang tight there will be something turn up.... the guys on this board are super.... hey, they did not let you build a engine that would not hold together.... :grin:
I've seen a couple 4x4 guys do a cheap locked diff by welding something in back, I'm not sure how this is done or if it's possible on the rear end you have, but might be a super cheap alternative to sourcing a used posi or buying a new one. and there's a couple good threads on here about cutting every last once of unneeded weight by swiss cheesing brackets, cutting down bolts, etc.....
