I am feeling a little to cheap to pay to have my R&P swapped out. I can't imagine it is THAT bad of a job. I am pretty sure I found a used set of 3.73s to replace the 2.73s in an 8.5" 10 bolt. I was thinking I would do carrier bearings and the pinion bearing during the install. So, how bad is this job? Do I need the differential spreader tool to get the carrier out? Anybody ever rented one from Autozone or Napa? Would I need any other specialized tools? Where could I find the specs for setting it up right? Is there a step by step on the web somewhere?
It's not that tough of a job, but it is tedious. The first time I did one I had someone looking over my shoulder to help me out. After you do about three or four you become much more proficient at it. The only special tool I used was a bearing seperator to get the pinon bearing off. A press comes in handy also, lucky for me I had one available at work. You may have to remove the pinon bearing a few times to get the right shim under it. You have to set the pinon depth, and then set the back lash and then check the wear pattern between the ring and pinon. So you end up putting the whole thing together and taking it back apart several times. Like I said the more you do it, the better you get at it. I think Richmond gear sells a video through Jegs. Oh, I almost forgot, you also need a dial indicator to check backlash
Ken, This is on the 8.5 10 bolt, pretty much everything fits on the 2.73 up carrier. If it had 2.56s you can still use the deeper gears with a ring gear spacer.
Just checked, Jegs still caries the Richmond ring and pinon installation video. It goes for $15.99. Also another thing that might be helpfull, DTS (drive train service) sells a "super shim pack" that has all the shims for the carrier. Makes it easy to set backlash. You can also buy the pinon shims from DTS.
My .02 No offence but the last three I recently repaired/rebuilt were from car guys who thought they could do it themselves. There is alot involved in getting pinion depth, backlash, bearing pre-load, etc. especially on a used set. In my own opinion it is really not for beginners. Besides, why go "cheap" when it may cost you twice as much in the long run? $150-$200 isn't all that much to know its done correctly. If you really want to do it yourself then buy the VHS tape or see if you can find a "real" rebuilder locally to offer you pointers. This way you learn the correct way and save cash. Good luck, Tim
Good advise Speed70. Could type from now till sundown about my experiences with home "mechanics" & even ASE certified techs messing up R & P set-ups. Very common occurence. Built diffs so long, it's nice to be booked, & easy to turn down such super PITA "fix it" jobs. Factors... -For a $175-200 bench build labor charge, one is much better off having a well accomplished builder set-up the R & P. Monkey is then on his back! Something else to think about... doubt any exp builder will guarantee a noise free used gear set-up. Want a quiet differential & want to get charged additional straight hourly rate after a used ring & pinion patterns out acceptably, drag used gears into the picture, when quality new gears are avail. -Tool investment wise, one can't do a quality R & P set-up for little money. Last I ck'ed my inch lb torque wrench (for setting pinion drag) ran more than $175. Pinion depth guages, pinion flange tool, bearing presses & bearing tools... they all are needed, & price wise, add up. -Ordering installation kits for a seasoned builder... not recommended. Small parts wise, a good builder is not going to charge for a full R & P installation kit. He doesn't need one, as he should have a HUGE stock of shims. When preparing to set a 12 bolt's backlash, instead of ordering some $55 interlocking side shim set, a long time differential builder will only charge for 1 or 2 GM side shims, a .170 thick GM service spacer, & a cast side spacer... maybe $9-10. $9 or... $55 + markup, which would you rather be charged? Hope this helps. :3gears: Roger
Just one more added thing...lol I will set up New gears anyday of the week OVER A USED SET!!! I spend alot more time doing the used then the New. Some times the case castings are off more then others making things very grey. That pattern foot print will get tricky looking and all you have to rely on is the experience that you know what shim usually works or what is acceptable. I do wish you good luck with the project. Sometimes the only way to learn is to do it. Hope it is not an expensive lesson. Jim
With all above advice noted I was going to be stubborn and still try it myself. I ordered a R&P install kit with 4.10 gears from Jegs. Tonight I tore into the diff only to find it has 2.56 gears 41/16 tooth. Strange that they would even make a 2.56 posi. Am I now going to be forced to replace the whole carrier to fit the gears? The diff numbers are 410409 N.
Posi 2 series If The posi is good ...Just get a spacer with the proper bolts and go with it. You will be fine. I have tested spacers to 11.90 in my 71 monte test mule 454 and have not had problems. (that is a 12 bolt) Just make certain you torque those bolts properly and evenly across from each other lock tight them and set it up. Ifyou need a spacer email me I have them. Good luck and we are here if you need use. Jim
Hard to say how the posi is...with 2.56 gears and a high revving sbc, it couldn't break the tires loose o No: I have the diff apart and everything looks good. I ordered a spacer this morning before I had to take off. Thanks for the help guys, and Jim, if I had read the post earlier I would have gotten the spacer from you...next time buddy
10 hardened washers are also needed when Mr G or Summit 8.5 ring gear spacer kits are used. They should be provided in these spacer kits, but are not :rant: W/o the hardened washers, the bottom 2-3 threads on new Mr G ring gear bolts will strip. As regular hardware store/bolt supply lock washers are designed for rh thread bolts, they will usually spread open when torqued with the ring gear spacers LH thread bolts. Can't find proper OD/ID hardened washers locally, best to order a pck of Mr Gasket small block chevy head bolt washers. They're a perfect fit, only problem... 34 to a pack for around $7. :3gears: Roger
posi Hey GS- Not a problem on the buy. I do plenty ok...lol. Do check the depth on the bolts as Roger stated. I only ran into one that was a problem so far. If it is a chevy unit in your rear you should not have the depth problem. BUT IT IS YOUR REPONSABILITY TO CHECK THIS STUFF AS THE INSTALLER. So do it - no matter what set you buy. As far as not being able to break the tires loose with 2.56. The SBC or any v8 should be able to rip the tires on any gear ratioed tire. Better check that thing out. sounds like you need a smaller cam or a converter to go with it. I just put a torsen posi in a monza with the original 2.56 gears and it smoked them with the 231 carbed v6 in it. 25" tires. Work on that. Freeway gears Do great burnouts if you like a ton of smoke... If you want to get off the line quick that is want the gears are for not burn outs. The gears are to grab and go . Have fun. Jim
The R&P job is DONE :TU: No noise driving or coasting, not that I can hear over the exhaust anyway :laugh: Looks like my not being able to spin the tires is a tranny problem. It will just chirp them and then it feels like first is slipping. Ticks me off because that was a fresh rebuild. The fluid is starting to turn and smells a little. The convertor is from Midwest in Mpls, the same place JW uses. It is an 11" 2500 stall. Yes I do have too much cam in it, 258* @ .050 and the stupid Demon carb isn't tuned right yet, but this is a 383 sbc Needs a Buick motor :Brow:
cam Yes get rid of the large duration cam and use a 230-240 duration. That thing will act like a 455 toque monster. You could up the stall but the 383 is not a rever anyway so that does not make sense. Please trust me on the cam. It will come alive. Jim You camprobably pulls at about 4-5 thousand then your thinking about shifting...right. What is the intake? JIm if it is open plenum then you should think about dumping that too. use that rpm dual plan. I know it will go 11.40's for sure cause my race car still has it on it. I had a single plane manifold and the launches were much better with the dual rpm... pulled the front tires. :3gears: :eek2: :TU:
Shift at 5000.....no no no. With the 4.10s I shifted it at 7000 :beer It was still pulling strong. The motor started out as a 13:1 race motor supposedly built for 8000 rpm. Then the guy got sick of buying race gas for his street car and swapped in some flat tops for a 10.5:1 comp. It is a solid lifter cam, has a Edel RPM Air Gap dual plane intake, full MSD ign, speed Demon carb. I still need to re-do the fuel system. I don't like the elec pump or the tiny fuel line. First off though I need to get the tranny re-done, which stinks :af:
