UPDATE ENGINE PURCHASED!!! See images and additional questions after post #16. Looking at purchasing what is supose to be a 66 GS 401 motor and trans. Owner sent me this information and I was wondering if someone could tell me what it is? Here are the numbers I found on thr engine block MTR 38I BH251019. Thanks, Todd
It either has to be an MT or and MR, not an MTR. In '66 Buick used the designation MT for its 401 and MR for its "on paper 400" which in actuality had the exact same dementions as the 401. (GM wouldn't let any division put an engine larger than 400 cubes in an A body.) If the engine is from an A body, it should be the MR engine. MT were for the full sized models. In '66 there were also: MS engines "400" cubes with the 11:1 compression, and MU (rated at 340 hp instead of 325) engines which was the "400" with the Q-jet intake and carb (as was found on the 425 in the Riviera.) All this info comes from Dealer letter 66-106A dated March 18, 1966 - issued to include the MS designation. Ed
BH251019 is probably 6H251019. It is the last 8 places of the serial number of the car the motor is from: 6 for model year 1966, H for Flint MI assembly plant and 251019 for the production number (sequence) of the make. What color is the engine, what carburetor is on it and what is stamped on the servo cover of the transmission (passenger side)? Cheryl
Thanks everyone for the response's. I have requested a clarification on MR or MT on the block stamp. As well as engine color, carb and the stamp on the trans servo cover. So I am awaiting his response. I'll update when I recieve the answers. Thanks everyone, Todd
Todd, I would ask for pictures if they are being pretty co-operative. Like the others stated above, it should be MR, which will be stamp on the top of the block on the passenger side right infront of the valley pan. The last of the VIN will be on the drivers side on the same lip. MR was the most common for the A Body, if its a MS or MU......go find another and give me that guys number, Hahaha. If it is an MR, it should have the Carter AFB carb on it and the carb should be stamped 4180S C6, if so that is the original carb as well. That stamp should be on the passenger side, facing front, on the flange that is bolted to the intake. Might have to move a hose out of the way to see it. Good luck on getting everything together to put that GS back on the road. If you put it back like it came off the showroom floor it should be a stunning car. Seafoam Green with an Artic White top. That car outta pop. Especially with a set of road wheels and redline tires.
Johnny, Thanks for the reply. I am currently awaiting pictures. He had surgery last week so his wife is watching him like a hawk and not letting him do anything. I understand!! Maybe he mistyped the info MTR 38I BH251019. Maybe he was suppose type MR (38I)??? 6H251019. He says engine and trans are both rebuilt with a new converter. And he will thru in all other parts he has as well for free. So far everything is looking good for me going get it. Just have to find time to take the trip. Lotta OT at work right now. Which will help pay for this and the new swimming pool we should be starting in a few days(hopefully) Yes I always did like the 66 GS Seafoam Mist with white top and white interior. As you said, it should look real good with road wheels and redline tires. Body will be the next thing I will have to tackle. I think I'm gonna part the Special and use the frame to set the GS body on for now while I redo the GS frame, set the engine and trans and so on. I will need some parts though. Keep an eye out for a GS trans brace. Mine must have gotten stolen with the nailhead out of dads shop. I'll start gathering the parts I know I will need and go from there. Wife not liking this obsession and I'm just getting started. Todd
See PIC below and tell me what I'm looking at. Is it a MR or MT motor?? While you are looking can anyone identify the trans by the numbers on the second pic?? FYI the block was painted green by the owner. Block was originally red. Todd
Well that is the second MTR block I have seeno No:. The other block was from Flint also. The other block was red as it should be for the GS
http://www.tpocr.com/buickvin3.html Todd the engine did come from a 66 from flint and I would think that it is from a GS/Skylark. Other than that the last 6 numbers is the cars production #.
I have one too. The 'T' has some dents in it as if they were trying to 'correct' the stamp into a MR. My vin matched the car, so it was the original engine. Mine was built in Fremont, California. The 'NK' trans is the ST300 only used on the Skylark GS..... You're good to go!:TU:
Also, the 66 on the cover stands for 1966. So, it is a 66 Gran Sport transmission (NK) made on the 132 day of production (sometime in January 1966) . Cheryl
This is a GREAT example of the POTENTIAL for folks to interpret what was supposed to happen according to production guidelines (factory literature) as "bible" and disregarding the fact mistakes occurred frequently in actual production. I have seen many mis-stamped blocks over the years and am always trying to convince experts in my little corner of the Buick hobby to keep an open mind. The mistakes generally fall into the two categories seen or referenced here. I have witnessed the very rare `66 Super Wildcat (only 200 produced) stamped with THREE alpha characters, specifically "MXZ", and am convinced this was an original "mistake". Picture yourself on the engine assembly line, having stamped an "X" in the two previous years on the dual quad motors, and having a lack of guidance or info regarding an option (Super Wildcat for `66) which has been added after production has started for the model year. It is not a stretch to believe that assembly line worker would stamp an X in addition to the "Z" code. As Walt has referenced, I have encountered a handful of original stampings with an incorrect alpha character blotted out with what looks like a blunt punch and the correct character added. Best example of this which comes to mind was an original dual quad `65 Riv GS which was stamped "L T(blotted out by a punch) X". This was originally a 425 block (block casting number ending in "704") which was completely original, original 425 pistons, etc...when torn down. Why would this block ever be stamped with a "T"?? Had to be a mistake... I am currently building a 425 purchased from a parted `65 Riv GS which originally had the carbs, dist, BS trans, etc...all the correct components...the block is stamped "L W(blotted out with a punch) X". This one is really interesting because the "X" which has obviously been added after the initial stamp is over stamped on top of the three digit production code! I have also encountered what I think are mistakes on the ProtectoPlates which most folks in the muscle car hobby consider "bible". The most interesting one I have personally encountered is an original "MZ" `66 Super Wildcat with a "W" for the engine code on the PP plate. Mistakes happened! If one considers the rarest options were infrequent exceptions to the overall scheme of things is it unreasonable to expect that these types of mistakes were made? I dont think so...and that has been demonstrated to me by my experience over the years...and this post. Cool stuff...great post! :TU: Tom Mooney
Thanks for all the help everyone. You guys are the best!!!!!! I've determined from your replys and what I have since read that this engine and trans are the best fit for my 66 GS. Probably the closest replacement engine to the one that was stolen from me. So I'm taking a road trip once we can figure out what is the best time for both of us to take the trip. Anyone need anything delivered from Baton Rouge, La area to Atlanta, GA area.. I'd be glad to deliver either way to help someone out. Is there anyone in Vermont that would be willing to pickup and ship a couple of quarter panels to me in South Louisiana? Sure would be nice to see a Transportation section added to the classifieds so we could post items needing shipped/delivered by members taking trips or on work trips to other members. I see a section like this on another site where members post the need this part or that delivered. Or a members post he will be traveling between location and other members ask if they could pickup and deliver parts. Any chance we could get something like this added???? Thanks again guys, Todd
First of all I would like to thank each and everyone of you for the help identifying this nailhead. I took the ride to Atlanta and it now has a new home. Along with a rebuilt ST300 and a new converter. Also thanks to the gentleman for the great deal and all the additional parts that came along with this engine. I'll post another thread of those items later. Check out the rest of the items here http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?269393-Found-a-motherload&p=2214100&posted=1#post2214100 Thanks, Todd
Congrats man. Great find. But before you drop that in the GS you need to paint it Buick Red. That green is a big car color like the Riv or the Wildcat. The engine in the Skylark GS was Red. Thats if you are going for correctness. If you dig the green then it won't hurt. You will just catch hell from all the die hards. Haha.
Correct would have been the engine that got stolen. But it will be red before it's dropped in. That may be some time from now. I have to get the frame from under the GS first and redo it all. Also want to have the engine check out by someone to make sure everything it up to standards and everything it torqued. I'd hate to put it in the car only to find out later something wasn't right. Todd
Now that I have the engine home is there anything that I need to do to ensure it is correctly built. Guy I purchased it from says its been sitting there on the engine stand for a few years. And recommended removing the heads, pulling the pistons and honing the cylinders again. Any recommendations? Motor looks good from every aspect that I can see. There is white assembly lube on all cam lobes and on rod bearings as well. I don't want to install it to later find out something wasn't right. Todd
Thats a $5000 question. Is there any documentation from the build such as what all the clearances were? Was it bored? What compenents were replaced? You can get a borescope and look in the cyclinders through the plug hole to see if there is any rust. Depending how it was assembled and stored it may be just fine from that aspect. All other critical bearing surfaces should have been coated liberally with assembly lube. If there is no documentation on the build you have two choices. Install, cross your fingers, and start engine as-is assuming no rust in the cylinders or; pull it apart and check all the clearances in the rotating assembly and valve train as well as a visual inspection so you know what you have for certain before installing. Not sure what I'd do in this case. I have little faith in engine rebuilders unless there is complete documentation or I know the shop personally who did the work. Any chance you can get in contact with who rebuilt it?
