I don't usually post here because I'm a circle track guy but my car is 462 Buick powered. We have been running gas very competatively for 2 years against pretty serious small block chevys. The car is an IMCA dirt track modified that I am switching to methanol. 980 Holley, Barry Grant mechanical bypass, TA intake, 430 heads (rules no aluminum), Big block chevy rods, JE pistons, 13-1 comp., manual fuel pump (rules no electric), car weighs #2400 with nearly 60% rear weight, full of fuel. It has to run almost endurance like compared to what I read on the board. Oil windage is what we are currently working on, along with the switch to methanol. We are also always lean on #5 and #7 cylinder. I have some simple questions like what sparkplugs, heat ranges, oil filters that are compatable with methanol, and what oil? I was using 15W-50 mobil1 on gas but I hear that it is not to be used with methanol. Any other help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated because I'm kind of in uncharted territory here and haven't found to many people running circle track Buicks at this level. Thanks to all the regulars who post here also, we adapt as much of the street and staight line stuff into our program as we can.
Hey, that's cool. I didn't know anybody was running the big Buick in a roundy round car. You must not run with a "claimer" rule, it looks like you have too much $$ in that motor for the normal claim amount! I spent some time crewing/tuning on a couple asphalt modifieds. I really like that class. I probably can't offer much you don't already know about alcohol set-ups, though. It's good to run gapless rings to cut down on oil dilution. Also, you may have heard alcohol racers swear the best oil was the OLD formula Kendall "green" oil. They don't make that anymore, but another company has the formula and is starting to sell it again. It's just a small oil company in Pennsylvania. I'll try and find the name if you want. I think some others may be able to offer more advice. Have fun and keep turning left.
Thanks Jeff, I would be interested in the name of that company. Kendall was good stuff. I actually ran a 455 in a 70 Camaro streetstock for many years until I was ruled and voted out of the class by the Chevy guys. Your right, there is no claim and no limit on cubic inches. Most of the Chevy guys are spending $10k to $15k on their engines and I'm no where near that and theirs blow up all the time spinning to many rpm. My engine only spins 6000 but we run 20 - 40 lap mains so durability is very much a concern. We have started walking the main caps too so we are working on over balancing and lightening the rotating assembly. Filling the block is not an option because of cooling and a girdle adds too much weight to the nose of the car. I'd rather have less power than weight on the nose.
Greg - You might try adding just the TA 'halo' style girdle. It won't add much weight, but it will help in the side to side action of the mains. I always thought it would be great to run a Buick 350" in the superstock class here locally. With the flat top rule....the Buick would have some serious compression, without having to resort to angle milling the heads (like the SBC guys do). 100lbs. less weight over the front end wouldn't be a bad thing either.:Brow:
Here is the info I had found earlier. The thread this came from had several alcohol racers that would use nothing else but the old "green" Kendall. This is a letter from the new company: "Thank you for your inquiry on our Penn-Grade 1 Racing Oils. To give you a little bit of history, Kendall lubricants were refined at our Bradford refinery from 1881 to 1997. In 1997, the Kendall name was sold to Sunoco. Since then, the Kendall name has been sold to 76 and I believe now, Phillips/Conoco owns the rights to the name. At the same time, American Refining Group, Inc. (ARG), a privately held energy company headquartered in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, purchased the old Kendall refinery in Bradford, Pennsylvania from Witco Corporation. We still had 40 million gallons of product going out our door and needed a new name for them. So, in an attempt to pay homage to the local folks in Bradford, Pennsylvania, a new name was given to the products produced at the Bradford refinery BRAD PENN Premium Pennsylvania Grade Lubricants. The Bradford refinery is the only refinery processing 100% Pennsylvania Grade crude oil. In fact, it is the oldest continuously operated lube oil refinery in the world. Lubricants refined from Pennsylvania Grade crude oil have been the choice of manufacturers and consumers throughout the world. Take Pennzoil and Quaker State, for example. Their names imply the use of Pennsylvania base oils. However, they moved out of the area about 10 years ago thinking that the crude oil was pretty much used up. Little did they know, they simply drilled too far down. New technology in the industry has told us too come up about 400 ft. Geologist tell us now, that approximately 70% of those reserves are still in tact. Too bad for Pennzoil and Quaker State as our owner has bought up all of their properties in the area. Now, to answer your question of Do we make an identical oil to the old Kendall GT-1? The answer is yes and no. The same formulation chemist, John Cannella, who formulated the original Kendall GT-1 stayed with American Refining Group. The original Kendall GT-1 was 100% mineral based. What he did was soup up the additive package and put a slug of synthetic base oil in our formulation to optimize the performance features. So, our BRAD PENN Penn-Grade1 20W-50 Racing Oil is now a partial synthetic. But the key to the formulation and to the old Kendall GT-1 formulation is the use of bright stock. Bright Stock is a unique base oil cut unique to Pennsylvania Grade crude oil and our Bradford refinery. It has an extremely high affinity to seek out metal surfaces and attach itself. This clingabilty for lack of a better term, is the reason engine builders all over the country fell in love with the old Kendall GT-1 product that came out of our Bradford refinery. One it get there, it stays there. Since 80% of engine wear takes place at start-up, the clingability of our bright stock to metal surfaces protects those critical engine components than anything Ive seen out in the market, while the slug of synthetic base oil allows the engine to run about 10 degrees cooler." Have fun.
Something new? On your lean #5,7 problem you can call Comp cams. They are grinding cams swapping #4 and7 in the firing order with good results and it might be something to look into. And/or get your intake flow balanced. And/or use a MSD multi function box or programmable Digital 7 where you can adjust timing on individual cylinders and pull timing out of lean cylinders.:TU:
Switching to methanol will likely allow you, or maybe even make you want to fill the block at least part way. I'm not familliar enough with dirt trackers, but a drag racing friend actually had a heck of a time building enough heat in his engine for peak power.
from all i know about running alky you usually have to run twice as much volume as with gas and have to jet up considerably with alky. how can a mechanical fuel pump flow enough for a big block Bob
Re: Kendall GT-1 "green" oils THANKS A BIG BUNCH for digging up and sharing this info with us Jeff!:TU: :beer Green is Great! For those looking for a direct link, Brad Penn Oils, Penn-Grade1 Racing Oils
Not sure, but I think that the Billet pump that JW sells might be made to be compatible with methanol, and probably volume wouldn't be an issue either.o No: Ask him. jim@trishieldperf.com
I work for the Buffalo and Pittsburgh Railroad out of Butler, PA. One of the jobs I work to a road train out to New Castle, PA and back. One of the products I pick up is crude oil for the old Kendal refinery in Bradford. The oil originates from Ohio, I believe out near Willard. Maybe its from one of those properties that Pennzoil or Quaker State once owned. I guess Pennsylvania Grade oil doesn't have to come from PA. Anyway...I used to work in the Bradford yard when I first hired out. I got done with work and stopped at McDonald's for a quick bite. I went to the drive thru and between the menu and voice box thing and the building there's a working oil well. It had to be the most interesting thing I saw that day.
I have checked with Jim on using his new pump with Ethenol (not has harsh as methanol - but still harsh) and it WILL work with Ethenol....
I'll did not know about that pump, thanks. We are currently building our own pump arm to run an Edelbrock methanol pump for a sbc. The bolt pattern is the same and it's good for 130gph. My other option is a belt driven pump but I can't afford the one I wan't right now that combines the fuel pump and power steering pump into one lightweight unit driven by a gilmer belt.
GREG, I RAN A 525ci BBB ON ALKY (check ad with Bill Lee name) "alum heads" in this forum and "455 race parts" in parts forum. I have 2 enderle 80a belt driven pumps, not listed in ad, one new and one that was on my car....you need to run a low pressure by pass (w/carb), an 80a won't add that much front end wt. + you could mt. left side if you want....I have to go to a 110 pump....changing cam w/4-7 swap is best way to end 5-7 lean condition....you guys have to run carbs? If you were injected you can fix it w/fuel, good luck, Bill Lee
Greg, I'm new on this board and this is my first post, but I'll throw out a couple ideas from personal experience. I run a SBC on alcohol in a 2300 lb. S/G car. For oil, go with a good SINGLE weight oil like Castrol 30HD or equivalent. DO NOT use a multi-grade with alcohol.I've never had a problem that I could trace back to this oil's failure. The filter you're using now should work on alcohol. I'm using up the last of my AC PH35's now. Most important, talk to George Rupert about converting your gas carb to alcohol. He's THE BEST and a real good guy and will have you nearly spot on the first time out. His # is 931-372-9142. Start with the plugs you are running now. Should be pretty close. A good idea is to run a simple lean-out valve plumbed into your intake under the carb. Use a length of vacuum line and a ball valve mounted within reach of the driver. Then you can lean it out for warm-up and to keep the heat up during cautions. Because you'll have the motor and oil hot during the race, you probably won't have nearly as much oil milking as a drag car has cause alot of the water will boil out of the oil. The main thing you'll have to work out is fuel delivery because it takes roughly 2-2.5 times the amount of alcohol as compared to gas. Hope this helps. Randy
Thanks for all the info guys. I ran it for the first time this weekend. It works awesome. The fuel pump problem seems to be fixed. We used a Chevy edelbrock methanol pump and fabricated our own pump arm. It's not as hard as it sounds. The mounting bolt holes to the block are the same. We just had to fabricate the part from the pivot point on out to the cam follower part. We have a Barry Grant mechanical bypass that gives about 5 psi at idle and over 10psi wot. I run out of straight away to see an exact number. We are about 100mph at the end of the sraight, on dirt, so I'm a little busy. The carb we sent to KP Performance in Ithaca, NY. I highly recommend them. Jets are 165's. We're talking about flowing some fuel here! The engine is turbine smooth and very drivable. I could drive it on the street it's so smooth. We'll keep tuning to make it even better but so far so good. I can't wait to try it on our other engine. Thank's again. Greg.
