Guys, Got the timing cover off the 401 this evening and while checking the tension of the timing gear I noticed there seems to be a fair bit of play on the chain.... is this amount of slack normal? [video=youtube_share;i-ZXWcqXno4]http://youtu.be/i-ZXWcqXno4[/video]
I can see it. Id change it For the price of a timing chain it make sense to replace it while the motor is apart.
looks a little loose. best change it. I changed mine thinking mine was loose but turns out new one was about the same but mine was about half as loose as yours. if you done all the work to take that cover off might as well put a new chain and gear set.
X2. :gp: You're at the "while it's apart, I might as well change it now", point. Since you're also in Europe, parts might be more difficult to find though. Good news is the chain and gears are still available new in the USA. In fact our own Telriv here probably has them in stock, or can get them on short notice. :beers2:
Ok perfect, thanks for the reply guys - it validates what I was thinking already! Just some quick follow on questions: 1. Is there any particular type of brand timing gear & chain you guys would recommend I get? Should I be looking at a roller timing chain set? (not fully aware of the benefits of these) 2. Is there a guide available for the replacement of the timing gear and chain? 3. I dont have the car up on ramps, but when I took the timing cover off the bottom part of the oil pan gasket came off too so I'm going to have to replace that after this.... can the oil pan cover be removed with the engine in the car without having to remove anything else? 4. A lot of the bolts were very rusty and I'm not keen on putting them back into the engine..... does anyone know of a bolt kit for the 401 Nailhead that I could get as well? (not looking for anything fancy like a polished stainless kit - but something strong). Rowan.
Just went through this myself.... Tom Telasco (1-203-324-6045) or Carmen Faso (1-716-693-4090) should have all the parts and bolts you need. I bought a standard chain/gear set, with the nylon gear...it'll last for as long as I'm driving it I'm sure. His front cover gasket set includes a partial pan gasket so you wont need to drop the pan, but Tom Telasco told me he just uses a bead of RTV gasket maker like "the Right Stuff", or at least that's what it's called here in the states. You could also try Russ Martin at Centerville Auto in California. The actual replacement is fairly straightforward, and you can find the 66 shop manual on line that will walk you through it... http://www.teambuick.com/reference/library/66_chassis/ (be sure to throw the site a couple pounds/Euros depending where you're from) I'd be careful to note the position of the crank oil slinger as you take it apart, line up the gears carefully and mind the cover alignment dowel on the passenger side (US) of the block. If you torque it all down without proper alignment you'll bow the front cover, maybe crack it. You NEED 225 ft/lbs of torque on the balancer bolt when it goes back together (I clamped the flex plate with vice grips and it still took a little effort). Also check for a ridge in the balancer where the cover seal has been riding on the shaft.. if it's worn, Tom has a pretty nice sleeve set he uses to fix them. Carmen has one too, but I like Tom's better. Pay special attention to the crank seal in the front cover - if it's still a rope seal I'd buy two neoprene seals when you order parts.. one to learn from, one to run..ask me how I know. You need the correct sized seal driver or socket to drive it in or you'll destroy it. When you put it all back together, the water bridge is difficult to line up unless you leave the front cover loose, and tighten it all up at once. Good luck, and keep us posted. If you run into trouble, someone here will jump in with advice right quick.
My recommendation on the "water bridge" or manifold is to use two O-rings where it fits into the timing case. It does make the installation of the manifold harder - you will need a good alignment drift or punch, but there are many of us that only used one O-ring that then had to take the manifold off and redo the job. Ask me how I know. If you have difficulty in finding the rings, send me a PM. I have plenty of them in stock. As to the chain slack - my rule of thumb is that if there is more then 5 degrees of crankshaft movement before the cam starts to turn, it's time for a new chain.
First of all, thanks for all the great replies guys! Will order up a new timing gear set tomorrow - I normally order from Summit, but I'll give Carmen and Tom a call tomorrow to see what they can do. Thanks for the link to the service manual - that will be a HUGE help!!! :bla: I had a look at the crank seal on the timing cover and it looks like its not a rope seal - but not being familiar with the type I'm unsure. Can you tell based on the pic below?. I had a closer look at the damper but cannot see any real signs of play.... with the fresh markings on it I would suspect that this was replaced recently before I took ownership of the car. Rowan.
Good advice... I think I have one included in the Fel-Pro gasket set I ordered - but would you use a new one and the existing one for the job or go for two brand new ones?
You'd know if it was a rope seal, it would look exactly like that - a flattened kinda rope. On the balancer, you'd see kind of a worn section of the snout where the seal rides on the machined surface.. if it was worn that is. You got the right guys for the parts, and the hard part is already done if you haven't broken any bolts. Good luck!
Funny that.... you didnt notice this then! :grin: The last bolt snapped on me, to make matters worse - the easy-out also snapped trying to get the remainder of the bolt out! Had to drill it out - its with the machine shop at the moment getting cast welded so that I can tape a new thread.... Ah well.. you learn!
Needs a new timing case cover it's all gouged out from a bad water pump. The balancer was replaced with a used one at some point also. If the engine hasn't had/have an out of balance vibration your probably good to go. Need to see close-ups of the rubber between the outer ring & the actual balancer. Tom T.
Also, forgot to add. Close-ups of the timing cover where the o-ring goes, water outlets to block & sealing surface of water pump. Since you need a new cover anyway why waste money on fixing the old one???
Tom, you're exactly right - water pump failure is what led me down this path in the first place.... I was going to ask that before but figured the scraping was probably ok. Are new timing covers manufactured for the 401 or am I looking at a 2nd hand one? I guess at this rate I might as well just get a new damper as well and do the job properly..... R
TA Performance makes a new cover, I think they are on sale right now because they just started making them. On the first page; http://taperformance.com/ [HR][/HR][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]New Product Release [/FONT][FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]364-401-425 Nailhead Timing Cover Introductory Priced at $299![/FONT] [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Regular $350)[/FONT] - [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]TAKING ORDERS NOW!![/FONT] Click for More Info
Sorry - couldn't see the pics up close on my phone...I jinxed you! Going racing on a few weeks, so you'll have the opportunity to return the favor.
Ok guys, bit worried about using the existing cover - so can I get some advice on this? I've attached two higher-res photos of the timing cover. The failed water pump was grinding against the cover after the bearing went, however I should mention that the water pump went while the car was in the garage - not while it was on the road - so the amount time it was grinding/scraping was limited. Should I re-use this cover or spend the $/$300 on a new one? EDIT: The photos above dont show the detail at a high resoution, so click here for my online album to see them.
