Read a copy of the National Corvette Restoration Society (NCRS) newsletter yesterday. Looks like those guys are taking all of the fun out of owning their cars. Most of the thing is ads for guys buying/selling a set of heads or an intake or transmission with a particular casting date so they can make their cars "original". There are also ads in there for NOS parts that are so expensive that it's hard to fathom anyone wanting to spend that kind of money. One ad was wanting $6000 for 2 NOS wheels, and another wanted $1500 for an NOS distributor. Maybe I'm crazy, but I just don't see the appeal. - Freed
I agree..... Near me, there's a guy who dragged home a ~70 mustang convert. Looked like a basket case.....riding my bike past one Sat I stopped and talked for a few minutes. I asked If he's gonna restore it, He said Yes and No......not restored to original condition, but what He wanted it to be...... Now, 1.5 years later, its BEAUTIFUL !! Bright yellow with black top and black Mach One striping .... a stroked 5.0 Hoe motor and somewhat of a custom mix and match interior that is tastefully done !! He took a piece of crap made it look good again, but didn't break the bank trying to keep it 100% original. .....and He's Enjoying it !! I know someone else who just dumped over 20K into restoring a 70 Chevelle ....307 ?? the small-small block - and now he's afraid to drive it anywhere !! Le...Le...Le....LOOOSER !!!! Gimme a Boulevard Bruiser anyday over a trailer Queen
I have this fantasy dream about buying some trailer queen car and when leaving after I've paid for it, stomping on the throttle and leaving a cloud of smoke for the previous owner. :Brow: That is if the car has fluids in it, and runs. Why do the Vette guys drive so slow?
Another NCRS anecdote I remember the story of this one guy that built a very tasteful custom mid-60's vette. I think it was in Super Rod magazine a few months ago. It seems that this guy spent a ton of money with the frame-off restoration and got the thing to the point that he took it to one of the national restoration shows. Most of the way through the 300-page judging manual, one of the judges slipped on a white cotton glove (I'm not kidding!) and started rooting it around under the passenger seat, taking points off for the dust that he found. Needless to say, that pushed this guy over the edge, and now he doesn't hang out with the restoration crowd at all. My dad's kind of the same way. Instead of the original, boring, painted valve covers, his 65 vette has a set of those beautiful cast aluminum ones that came on the 57's. Pic here: http://www.flatlanderracing.com/gm/3767493.gif He got marked down at a show for these, even though they look like they belong there. Heck, he was the original owner of the 57 they came off of. So, he doesn't hang much with the Corvette crowd anymore. Why would he? Buick guys are cooler anyway! - Freed
IMO a car should be what you want it to be, not someone else. Now I don't believe in ruining an original rare car with mini tubs and the like, but hey what is wrong with some modern rims and rubber? For example my car was an original GS350 that was stock right down to the factory (worn out) shocks. I bought it from the original owner's estate when he died. I have transplanted a 455 and T400 into it. I did it all with correct brackets and such. Just like the factory. However I added performance items and Stage 1 badging and I may change colors when it is redone. But that is how I wanted it. I don't try to pass it off as anything but what it is, a GS350 w/a 455 installed. It is how I like it and that is what matters to me. I don't understand why some of the resto freaks have to do it with correct date stampings and such. Most of us wouldn't even know if it was corrct or not. Just if it is a nicely done car, that's all. Brian
This guy is a "loser" as you put it?? Maybe his priorities are different than yours, thats all. I'm all for building the car you want (I'm changing the original color of my interior) but to slam guys who like the challenge of trying to build a perfectly restored car is a little silly IMHO. I have spent lots of money on NOS parts, not because I'm building a perfect resto, but because I want my car to be as close to original as I can make it. I don't enter shows but its a personal thing. I think its harder to do that than run the crap out of my car (which I also do). Does that make me a loser??? later Tim
Granted.....he's not a Looser. Maybe that was too harsh. ....and yes, people do what they want, and should !!! That doesn't mean i have to agree with it. Personally.....i think spending 20K on a run of the mill Malibu or base chevy isn't the best investment for your money. It would be like someone doing a frame off on a base '69 Specialo No: you put 20K into the car, and when your done, you have a 5K car at best. Now, If it was his dearly departed fathers car that Dad pampered since day 1, spent his life growing up in, took his road test in, Lost his *** in with his first girlfriend and now Wife, and Dads last dying words were "Son.....take care of the Special"....Then i could understand it. All too often I see people spend a treasure chest of money on a project they have no real emotional connection to - as in - they dont even really like "_____" , but thats what was on the side of their Sisters garage when she moved in and it was free Then....20K later, they have a car they dare not drive, maybe dont even like too much.....and sell it !! usually taking a beating This guy had no emotional value linked to the Malibu, in fact, when we last spoke, he was hoping to MAKE MONEY as in, more than his 20K !!! ....so he can buy a car he really likesou: BTW.....my Hot Temoli Red Covert is anything but the original color - I had a skylark for 6 years that was Verde Green......not again - for me
The guy that owned my 68 back in about 1995-96 told me he put about 15 grand into it during those couple years, then signed it over to his boy for his HS graduation...he proceeded to trade it to a dealer in exchange for a 67 Special that needed lots of work, plus $200 to boot! He was just a bit p*ssed... my wife talked to him on the phone when he first called me back, I wasn't home, and she told him I only paid $6500 for it... oops... I don't think I would have told him myself... ou: In his case, he and his son worked on the car as a high school father/son project. By the time they got it done, after many engine rebuilding problems, the son had lost interest in it. The engine builder trashed the original motor, they had to take him to court, but got their money back. Then someone else rebuilt a 71/72 350 and dropped it in..sure wish they would have done a 400 or 455... To the old man, the attachment to the car was that he and his son had restored it together, mostly... apparently it didn't mean nearly as much to the kid...
Agreed on all points, but certainly building a Buick is NOT the way to get money out of this hobby...if that is what you are after. Bought a GS grille lately?? You'd be surprised what someoe would pay for a nicely restored cehvelle...more than a nicely restored skylark, can guarantee that, and probably more than a nicely restored GS. I'm just playing devils advocate here guys, don't get me wrong...but don't slam others only because you don't agree with it...I spend more money than I should on my cars BECAUSE they are Buicks and have to be that much nicer so they REALLY make an impression that people don't forget....that way our Buick image stays polished. An example of this is like I posted elsewhere where I was at a local show in our hangar with some incredible street rods, megabuck cars some were, but you should have seen the look on their faces when my "restored" and "stock" GS slammed to 5000 rpm and hung there as I layed rubber all the way to the end of the parking lot....I'll bet a lot of those guys will have a little more respect next time they come across a GS (they don't know how hard the tires are!!LOL). I am still hearing about it from the grapevine...some are wondering if its sprayed!!LOL Now THAT is funny.... But I also appreciate the 30's rods, the imports, the british stuff....even though it really isn't my scene at all...its part of being a Buick guy, the cars are only half the equation, the people are the other...fast and show some class.:beer later Tim
[QUOTE You'd be surprised what someoe would pay for a nicely restored cehvelle...more than a nicely restored skylark, can guarantee that, and probably more than a nicely restored GS. Tim [/QUOTE] See, that's one of the things I like, is the fact that the Skylark/GS isn't just another Chevelle. The Buick guys I know seem to be a little like some friends of mine who are Mopar guys: they don't like Chevies or Fords much, but they know about the cars almost as much as they know Mopars, they don't not like them because they are Fords and Chevies, they have respect for the cars, they just don't like 'em much. I find Buick guys to be similar: we like something a little bit out of the ordinary, compared to the other performance offerings from GM. We don't tend to be hard on a GTO, for instance, we just like something different. My Skylark's been called a Chevelle plenty of times. But when I find somebody who says, "hey, '70 Skylark, nice ride", the guy must know what he's talking about. Sometimes it seems like everyone who "thinks" they know GMs and start talking about old iron, they really only know one Chevy: the Chevelle. I would very much like a '67 Chevelle, I think they are one of the best looking cars ever to come out of a US manufacturer, but I simply think the '70 Skylark/GS/GSX is THE best looker made as a production car by the Big Three. But I also think that cars were meant to be driven. If you are so concerned with the originality and perfect condition of the car, either declare it a show- or museum-piece outright, or sell it. the car should be enjoyed. If it's a thing that MUST be done, even if it's not fun (like as an investment only, ug, that bugs me), you shouldn't be in the old car hobby. Maybe as a business. But not as fun. if your passion for the thing is shows, that's your business, or if your passion for it is driving it on nice Sundays, that's your business. But to take, say, a '69 Chevelle with a 350 and dump tons of money into it, to the point where exposure to direct sunlight may damage your investment, is antiethical to cars as a hobby. if that happens to me, a "For Sale" sign will go on the car, and I will start another project. Fat chance, I have to drive me cars!
Just an outside perspective here. But down here in Australia we all appreciate anyone who is into cars. We just don't have the luxury of partioning ourselves into that many camps due to the smaller population. If your into cars, that's good enough for most of us. Having said that, if there is any division it's mostly divided up amongst the big three. GM, Ford and Chrysler. If your car is GM then that's good enough for most anyone who has anothjer GM product - it's cool enough. Bring a ford around to a GM discussion and you might be greated with bored expressions. But if someone owns a '66 Impala and I start talking about my '66 Electra they won't 'diss' me beacuse it's not a Chev. It's GM, that's good enough. A rod is always welcome wherever it goes and anything manufactured in the US is too. Actually we regularly get 100-300 cars on a local cruise every month that is strictly restricted to American Cars, Hot Rods and Harleys only. If anything, we do distance ouselves from our own locally manufactured cars so there is some division there too. But mostly we all love every 'classic' or 'special' car we see wether it's a 55 4 door Ford sedan or a 35 Chevy or a 67 Dodge or even a Buick Electra or Wildcat (can't wait to see my first local RHD GS) or a lowered 50's FC Holden. It's all cool and it's all good. One of the good things about living in the States is that there are soooo many Buick Enthusiasts (compared to Australia) that you can afford to concentrate on Buicks as a family unto themselves. Here we don't have enough Buicks to go around and so we appreciate the entire GM Family as one. Personally I like any car/bike with chrome but that's just me. My point is that sometimes we need to keep a slightly more open view. At least these guys are into cars...right? Bill S.
Oh, yeah, as long as they're into cars. Like I said, if showing it is your thing, great, go for it. But the only time I ever thought of selling my car, a '70 GS with a factory replacement Stage 1 was for sale locally, 5 grand, NC car, teeny rust spot in one fender. I talked to a work aquaintenace about selling my car to raise the dough, he said, "Hmmm, convertible, might be a good investment for me" I told him I had changed my mind. He was no car guy, he was a dollar signs guy, and that was it. I don't understand that mentality at all. Antiseptic, no passion for the hobby, no want to learn, no desire to do. It may as well have been a mutual fund. I agree, open minds, but open in regard to enjoyment of the car, too. The owner who never uses his car denies the public of enjoying his car. I talked to a guy for half an hour the other day...not about my old Buick, about his '36 Ford Pick up! Show truck, needed gas. He was more than happy to talk to me, and he didn't even know I had an old car. He's the type of car guy I like the best- immaculate vehicle, not afraid to drive it, likes it when people appreciate the car. I'm sure he knows exactly how much it's worth, but it's still a car to him. Two thumbs up for that guy. Cars good Greed bad Chris go sleep now, much late hours, up early again in morning time.
As a person who has spent $55K on a GSX I think I can say it was fun building the car. The whole process was so interesting I never added up the total till it was done. You know $1000 here $1000 there... I was almost ashamed of the total when it was done but i did accomplish the goal I had set for myself. To win the GS NAts GSX class. The second year an officail of the GS nats show who also had a GSX in the class had my car conveniently eliminated from the show so his inferior GSX car would place. Mine would have taken 2nd place!! (I counted the balots later myself) After that I NEVER ever showed it again and went so far as to just sell it for $40K. The thing I saw was the greed for a throphy!!! SO WHAT!!!!!!!! I am so glad Im not a show queen anymore. Dont get me wrong they are some of the most beutiful cars in the land but if you cant drive it/race it I think its totally worthless. Just all my opinion.........
Its all about PASSION !!! Cars are about Passion,Obsession and just plain old feelin good. To us nothing is better than driving on a sunny day with the windows down,your favorite song playing and a feel good grin you couldn't wipe off with a house brick.Its the lumpy idle or the exhaust note in a tunnel or the just outright being different from the rest. I don't "get" Opera,Ballet or Classical Music I don't "get" Dog Shows,Stamp Collecting or 400 bottles of wine that you wont drink. What I do get is the Passion that makes them do it. Its the same with the 100 point Resto Crowd. Thats what does it for them. My friends down here think I'm nuts because I devote so much time and especially money on some "Yank Tank" (64 Riv),but I love it. Sometimes I kid myself its an investment or at least it wont lose as much value as new car. Thats all CR#P. I do it because I like it and it makes me feel good. So, to each their own. I like Rods and Sleds and Customs and so on and so on. I wouldnt build one because it doesn't do it for me but I get why they do it and appreciate the passion.
I stopped showing at the age of 17 when my 66 GS 4speed with 14,500 original miles lost to a 65 Tempest in worse condition. Even the Tempest owner asked the judge what was going on. He told us that "we don't know enough about the GS to judge it" so I got an honorable mention. I was lucky to learn it early, and have spent the rest of my adulthood driving the cars and laughing at the trailer queens. I took my Stage to "Muscle From the Past" in St Louis back in the early 90's and they did a parade of muscle. They had a good selection of really neat cars from all of the makers, and picked the "50 Fastest" The L88 vette and Cobra kit car in front of me idled down the track after offering a few words about their cars. I pulled to the lights, said a few of my own, and proceeded to melt the skins and did a full bore pass. I could see the spectators rising to their feet and clapping. I got a kick out of driving it like it was made to be driven, and still like using the windshield wipers and heater once in a while.
That reminds me of the time I was at an NHRA cruise night and my GSX had been chosen to cruise down the track with 25 other cars. I was in the middle of the pac and as they announced us at the starting line the rest started accellerating down the 1/4 mile in front of me was a BB corvette 66 model and then in front of him was a ProStreet nova, well as the nova hammered it so did the vette and well you know me :Brow: I was at 3000 rpm in first when I hammered it and the stage 1 ran just perfect that day as I hazed the tires thru 1st then when I hit second the back of the car slid sideways then 3rd then 4th as I looked up the vette was still accelerating and I was right on his butt so I hammered the brakes and slowed way down. Later after a while the vette guy came around and said he thought I was going to run over him He couldnt beleive a Stone cold stock looking GS BUICK could outrun his 427 .....all I could say was ou:
