Hello Here is a question from a dutchman ( Apologies) for my englis. I ame the oner of a Buick special 1958 and i have a problem with my engine. When i have changed my oil and filter the engine runes smouth and has no further problems. But if I have reached approximately 600 miles in In several journeys. the hydraulic valve lifters begin tapping at a cold start. This is gone witin a half-mile . when i change oil again is is gone for another 600 miles . What can this be, i use 15/50 from sunoco. Thanks , Simon
I'm not an expert, but it sounds like the lifters leak down and it takes a while for them to fill. Next oil change, you could try an oil like a straight 40 weight and an additive with ZDDP. Here in the US, a racing oil will cover both at one time.
One thing an old mechanic years ago when I had a 66 Grand Prix that did the same thing. he said that you pour a half can of transmission into the oil and it will clean out the lifters and make them work better It works , Im a believer and its cheaper than the additives they sell for 4 times as much Good Luck Gary
Simon- Welcome to the group and do not ever be concerned about your English. We will understand the question, and that is what is important. My advice to you about the lifter clicking is to not worry about it. Ignore it. It is common for this to happen with old cars with hydraulic lifters when cold and if it clears up within half mile, that is OK. Just leave it. Anything you do to try to clear it up can lead to bigger problems for you than the little tapping you hear for a short time. The main point is that it does stop after a bit.
I agree with Gary, the old a/t works. A lot of old mechanics back in the 50s and 60s would routinely sub a qt of a/t fluid for one of the 4 qts of oil in the engine. If nothing else works locate the ticking lifter and replace it.
over the years I've discovered that in cold temps, 5w-30 seems to help. But since I run synthetic and don't drive mine in the cold weather, I just ignore the problem. Sometimes if you don't set the choke with the gas pedal, and let it crank over for about a half minute before starting it will help also. I think that fills the lifters more slowly without trapping air. It's not good for the starter though. :idea2:
Get rid of the 50 weight oil !! 10-40 should suffice unless you are operating the engine in extreme cold. Tom Mooney
After I spun that rod bearing last summer, I'm convinced that the heavy oil I was using is why. I had 20w-50 synthetic in there, and I think the way oil can "shear" at high RPM's until it gets warm and thins out is what did it. :rant: Now I use 10w-40.
He Simon! Have you tried to stop the ticking of your valves with adding some transmission oil? If it helped let us also know on the Dutch Forum!!! What I found out with my other classic car (of a different brand) is that the americans swear by thinner oil than here in europe. I asked 2 companies who race with that type of engine. One in England and one in the USA. Both recomend a different type of oil! So what's a guy to do when you do not have the skill yourself to know what type of oil is best and must go by the recomendation of the experts?? o No: Even now Simon get's 2 kinds of comments. "Add some transmission fluid" and "just let it be". So what are you going to do Simon!!!! :TU: Bas
Hey, Guys, What I do is this ; When you look at the shop manuals for the time[ 1957-58-59-60-on.] They reccommended ,most of the time, a straight grade or a multi grade oil between 20wt. and 30wt. Now up in the north part of America they reccomended the lighter grades for the winter months. Also at the time they reccomended that the oil be changed every 2000 miles. [not 6000 miles like they do now] This is what I do in my vintage cars; I change every 2000 miles [oil and filter] and use straight 30 wt. in summer and straight 20wt. in the winter. Since I do not use them for daily drivers , it takes a long time to rack up 2000 miles. now there is the Zinc [ or lack there of] question. I use Gm break in suppliment to solve that problem.
For those of you concerned with the lack of zinc in today's oil, check out Shell's Rotella oil. I know of a couple of guys around here who swear by it. One of them has a 4.0 Liter Jeep with close to 400,000 miles on it; uses nothing but Rotella in it. Ed
Ed-Unfortunately Shell changed the formula fazing out the high zinc and phosphorus content in rotella this year. I use the Rotella 15-40, but now I add a can of B&G MOA. Got rid of my lifter tick. Only problem is B&G is only sold to repair shops so you have to buy it from a shop owner (who can charge whatever he wants for it). However I did find a site through google that sells it a little on the expensive side.
I agree with Tom that 10W40 is a good place to start for an engine with some wear and 10W30 for a recently rebuilt engine. If you are driving in very cold places, you might even need something a bit lighter, but probably not. Nothing brings out peoples' emotions like discussions of motor oil and spark plugs!!! Jim Cannon
Hi Jim, I was not implying a 50 weight oil would be appropriate for extreme cold; simply stating that a 40 weight may not be. If one has an engine with enough wear that one needs to consider using a heavy weight oil to maintain sufficient pressure then lifter tick on cold startup is the least of his/her problems. What I have found in my experience is that a heavy oil, for the same reasons it will boost oil pressure, takes longer to pressurize the lifter galleys and invites lifter tick on cold startup. Very often, lifter tick may be mistaken for noise in the rocker arm area. Obviously, the rockers are the last to get oil and a heavy oil also aggravates problems in this area, especially when cold. Without consulting period literature it would be my guess GM was recommending 30 weight oil for normal temp ranges as far back as the `60`s. A 10-30 should probably be the correct recommendation. Tom Mooney
With a car of 56-57-58 vintage, it is not unusual for a lifter to tick for a short while after setting awhile. My 64 riv does this. hydrolic lifters function is relative to oil pressure. If a lifter happens to stop in the valve open position , it will often leak down and then on start up will tick untill it pumps back up. not unusual. When the red flag should start waving, is when there is no issues on start up and then after reaching full warm up the lifters collapse and start ratteling. it takes 20 or so lb of oil pressure for a lifter to work best and collapsing lifters can be a first warning of engine wear. As the cam bearings and the main bearings wear out, the oil pressure drops and this affects the lifters function.
Doc, you've said more in your last post than some would in an hour on the subject. My Wildcat does the same as your Riv.
I will not buy a used vehicle unless I can start it up and let it run at least an hour and then drop it into gear and let it idle to see where the oil pressure is. That is after I ck the dip stick to see if the oil has been poured full of stp.
This was on the Yahoo Nailhead forum today. No endorsements here, just an FYI. Interesting reading. Ed http://www.wheels.daytondailynews.com/daytondailynews/content/autonews/2007/12/13/MPSWLS1215WOW.html
