In an article written by Dennis Manner (if you have to ask, you're not a nailhead guru yet) for the ROA's Riview, he stated all of the specs for 401/425 cams for the years '59 - 66. His specs show that for the 65-66 "091" cam as Doc calls it, is the exact same cam as part numbers 1358100 and 1362242. These were the cam part numbers for the late '63 401's and the '64 425's. The "091" might be rare, but the grind isn't. Ed
Well,,,, I really hate to disagree with any one, but I have run the nail head o91 and it definitly was a hotter cam than the plain ''bread and butter'' cam that came in the every day buick.... it had more lope , more power, and could take multiple carbs/bigger carbs with gusto..... and pulled like a freight train.... If you start up my riv it has a barely detectable lope at idle IF you are standing back at the back bumper, listening ...... When i would start the car with the 091 cam in it , it had a noticable lope that shook the whole car, and when it got warmed up , the engine had a very powerfull , crisp , fast, wind up that let every one around know that there was many cubes of power there....no, the 091 is not just another cam.....like I said before , I wish that I had a truck load of them....
You already got 1, John,,,, and that is more than I have.... actually I need 2 right now....I may have the stocker that I have reground.....o No:
Are you sure you're not experiencing the same hp increase that the hoopties do with their fart can mufflers? Here's Denny's specs on all of the nailhead cams. Read his comments then check out the part numbers as compared to the specs. If you're still sure, I'll get Denny Manner's phone number for you and you can see if you can convince him of that.
Dont need to ,,,, I already know what I did and I know what was the result... I drove the engine before the 091 was put in,,, put the cam in and raced it after for 3 years.... case closed..... anybody can say anything..... factory part numbers change and are superceded all the time and was back then....I compared the cam lobes side by side before I put the cam in and it had lobes that lifted higher and were spaced different than the original cam.... the lobes looked like a womans fingernail.... higher and sharper pointed than the stocker... and knowing Buicks habit of using hot cams to compensate for the smaller valves ,I was confident in the performance... that is why i used the factory cam instead of a Isky or crane or Clay Smith that was popular at the time....I was not disappointed,,,, and it sounded raunchy when I would pull into the drive inn with the dumps open..... BTW,,,, have you ever actually used and raced a 091 cam that was made back in the 60's????
Yeah, the only problem with that is that next winter (probably) I will have to dig into my perfectly good engine to install that dang '091. I guess that is a good problem to have, though...
"anybody can say anything" I guess you're right. You can say whatever you want. Denny Manner and the entire staff at Buick Engine Development must have been smokin' their socks when they designed those cams. Guess they should have looked at their wives' fingernails instead of using their engineering degrees and spending all that time and $$$ on R&D.
Actually Manner did not design the 091... Zora Arkus Duntov did....again, have you ever run a 091 cam in a nailhead???? There have to be some guys out there with all original 64-65-66 super cat engines in their cars,,, do they have more power and more lope, and better performance than a plain bread and butter nailhead engine??? lets here from those guys.....
091 cam is on a 109 LSA thats a big difference than the 114 LSA. 091 cam will have less vacuum and will not idle as smooth,the cam will pull low end and mid range.buick even retarded it 4-5 degrees to give it a little more top end power in the 425 engine,because with 091 cam and the extra torque of the 425 compare to the 401 it did not need that much bottom end in the 425,they could spread the power curve out a little.
The 109* LSA will have a "peakier" horsepower/torque curve, and therefore should produce more peak power. Not necessarily more low end/mid range power. Of course that's all theoretically what it should do - who knows what the dyno would actually show.
here we go again with cams, lol. call comp cams or in the ta performance catalog it reads tighter lobe seperation angles LSA increase overlap,lowers the rpm when peak power occurs. reduces the rpm difference between peak torque and peak horsepower. tighter will also reduce idle quality and vacuum, better cylinder filling and a lumpier idle. the wider LSA would be good for more vacuum for you power brakes and more mpg. my point is docs not crazy, about cams anyways lol. you could feel and hear the difference in the 091 cam and i would bet you would beat them chevys even more with the 091 cam.
Yep,,,,and I dont know about all that sla, usa , stuff, but I just bolted the thing in with lots of moly grease on the cam and lifters,,, did not ''degree'' it at all just rolled it over to make sure it would not punch a hole in the pistons.... and then raced it untill the world looked level... beat a bunch of cars that were supposed to be wayyyyy faster ..... of course the switch pitch and the 4.11 posi. and naturally the holley 3 barrel helped a lot.... but the cam never let me down... would rev to 6000 without any problem.....
Doesn't surprise me that it would rev to 6k RPMS with the 109* LSA. And gsgtx, I'm not arguing with what Comp or TA says. It's a pretty bold statement to say a tight LSA will indefinitely lower the RPM at which peak power occurs. It is all dependent upon the overall combo - some motors are going to prefer a tight LSA vs a wide LSA and vice versa. I can say one thing for certain - a tight LSA (like 108*) will have a "peakier" horsepower/torque curve vs the same cam with a wide LSA (like 114*). One thing I will have to disagree with Doc on though. I think there are much better alternatives than an 091 cam now a days, especially since it's so easy to get a custom ground cam. I'm sure the 091 was king in it's day, but things have evolved.
Andy, are really only 20 years old? you write good posts, i can tell your a nice guy. am glad your into cars and nice your like buick nailheads. i think i blew up 3 engines before i was 20 i guess thats why they say live and learn. your way ahead of the game, keep up the good work. your right all motors are not the same, yes there are better cams now. it would be neat just for fun to copy the 091 cam but with a more lift.
Well,,, Andy it may surprise you and the other guys,,,:laugh: I agree that cams have progressed and definitly gotten better,,, I like the nh400 that I got from Posten.... all that I have ever said is that the 091 is a good , cheap, strong running cam that should not ever be sold short.... every body went bonkers over the Duntov cams that were put out for the chebbies back in the day and most guys did not know that he designed cams for Pontiac and Buick too.... and the 091 was and is, when you can find one , about the best for the money spent....I did find one and would have bought it , but with some medical issues, cash was short , so I siced John on it and he bought it...... but I would dearly love to have a truck load of them , like I have so famously said....:laugh:
Thanks! And actually I'm 19, I'll be 20 in October. I've lived and breathed cars and racing ever since I can remember. I was probably the only 10 year old kid playing with a desktop dyno and reading books about assembling a short block. And Doc I agree with ya, that was probably the stoutest factory cam they made. No doubt it made good power. Can you still get that as a stock replacement cam today? Or are all the new stock units based off the milder grind?
Andy,,, I was racing in the early 70's and one day while talking to my Buick mechanic friend [trading whiskey for new parts]:laugh: he told me to hold on to the 091 cam that I had because when the new engines came out in 67 , Buick had superceded that number and when a car came in that was a supercat car and it needed a new cam,,,, the new cam that they got was not near as hot as the old 091... and he said the cars they installed them in would not run as strong....:Brow: :Brow:
