I have finally gotten this beast down the track and now I have not been impressed with the nitrous performance on it. I went 6.68 and turning 6500 rpm's in the 1/8th of the mile. I really need to know where the timing needs to be. I have a 200 shot on this motor and it should be running 6.30's and then it does not have a good 60ft to it for the ladder bar setup. It is unloading after the initial launch. My original thread is fresh motor problems.
pics Can you take pics of the ladder bar setup and attach them?? How about a video of a run down the track?? It easier to help when you have something to go off of. I would be too concerned about the timing as long as its right and you took out the Standard for the amount you are spraying. A degree +/- wont make the difference you looking for. Try your nitrous fuel mixture for starters. It will kill your et/mph just like your describing it, if its rich . Just make adjustments I told you about before. If you tires are actually "unloading", there is something very wrong with your ladder bar geometry. When you say "unloading" I take it the tires plant/hit downward very hard and then halfway through the 60ft the rear drops(unloads) like some one pulled the ground out from underneath it(or like you hit a dip).
Whiteboy...... Didn't you say the converter was toast on the Juice.......Get the converter right first and foremost. I think Rick has given you every bit of Nitrous tune-up info you need to go .30's......
I am currently having a convertor fixed that is 3400 on motor and 4400 on nitrous. I will take the car and get the nos flowed and put a fuel pressure gauge on the relay to see the actual fuel pressure flowing not standing. What do u think that I need to achieve the 60 ft and timeslips that I am looking for. The 330 aint all that good either. they are 4.5045
OK, I don't care about the converter, but the nitrous, seems like "the basics" are being skipped. Don't spend money to "flow the nitrous" pick the "shot" , put in the manufactures recommended jets, nitrous and fuel, always have the bottle at least 950psi, then ALWAYS have it there when you run on the bottle. I don't know how your fuel system is so, put a battery charger on, arm the unit, with bottle OFF,or out of car, just worry about fuel pressure, you'll need to take carb off and put a rag in the intake,(or disconnect the fuel line from the plate and with a special fitting put in the required fuel jet and actuate unit and flow into a bucket) and then actuate the system, you are flowing thru the plate and the manufactures fuel jet in the plate, set fuel press. at this time FLOWING THRU THE REQUIRED JET. there are other ways, but you need to flow thru the fuel jet that you are using. Set pressure to the manufactures setting, I'm not sure which "unit" you have , so pressures are different, probably about 6psi flowing thru the jet. set it and forget it for now, there's more tuning with fuel press. but it seems that you need to get the basics down first. Actuate the unit(fuel only) a couple times and watch the fuel press. This setting of fuel pressure needs to be done with every Level increase, flowing thru the required jet. Does this make sense to you, set fuel pressure flowing thru the required jet, the battery charger is there to keep voltage constant. Gary G
Yes I know that. I am currently trying to get it flowed but have not gotten to it because I have to get the tranny back in and then I will tune the car. I will flow the fuel and nitrous fuel, adjust the valves, and change the convertor to see if that will help. I think that it is the convertor because everyone thAT I talk to say that the car should have easy 1.4 60s on motor.
I have since ordered the stage 1 TE heads, intake, roller rockers, and valve covers. I wonder if they will work right out the box and will they speed the car up without any port work. I want to drop some nasty numbers on Friday in Fayetteville at Freaky Friday. But if they can't be put back together before then then I will run the steel heads and hope that it will run 6.30's and better. If they can't be finished by friday then I will just put the rollers on and try it that way. Do u think that it will help with the rollers on it or just complete the heads and try it that way.
Your combination seemed to have the potential to run what you want, but instead of thinking about what's going on and tuning accordingly, from all the Posts your logic is to either add more nitrous, or throw money out "parts changing". I remember Rick C told you a long time ago to get the roller rockers, and he and I were both suprised that you were running the stock stamped steel ones with a pretty good cam, the rockers is a good purchase, the heads, I'd say you wasted your money.The're not even an upgrade from what you have, making it even a bigger waste of money. The smart thing to do would be to go race your race Friday, and throw more money out and get the heads ported, and hope the numbers come back better than what you had, then put them on, and start all over, because if they do for some reason flow better than your old ones, chances are that the cam wiil not be right, so you can spend more money on that too. Have you ever seen a dog chace his tail, just keeps going round and round....... Gary G.
Converter slip... 6.68 running 6500rpm :jd: YOu are KILLING that converter. Especially if your only doing about 100mph. I could guess at 30% slip and think I'm being modest. Basically your converter is slipping to the point where the motor in going flat. The heads are running out of air and can't get any more IN or OUT. More RPM with better heads wont fix that either. YOu turn that motor up any higher and you'll be picking it up off the track. Plus it wont change that your converter is just waisting all your HP and TQ. FIX THAT CONVERTER!! YOu wont be able to run 6.30 ANYTHING until you do. More power will just make the converter slip more and you'll just go slower. :blast: GO shoot a hole in it or something.:blast: Then you'll have to get a new one. I preached from the start about gearing and the RIGHT converter. Guess what, you STILL need it. Don't borrow your buddies or get anything used. I can almost guarentee it will be TOO LOOSE. Take the converter out of your car, send it off and tell whoever that you need it AT LEAST 1500 rpm tighter. They'll figure it out. Don't be surprised of you have to get another converter. On the new heads. THere's nothing wrong with any of it but its not going to help. Plus now you have to look at building a block to handle the power and on and on. It's an endless chance. You have plenty to work with what you have. There will always be a faster guy to chase down. Roller rockers would definitely be a plus. Its not that it all wont work. they'll out-flow you irons out of the box, and you'll save a few pound but it's not the right place to spend the money especailly since its not what you need right now to go faster. :rant: You'll pick up more et and MPH off $1100 on a good converter than anything right now. Don't be diappointed with the NITROUS. Its only as good as the combination of parts you use it with. If you spray 200HP of nitrous, its there! YOu just have to fix where your waisting it at. I'll be back in ONE MONTH!! I'll see what I can do to take a look at it. (only for 2-weeks, I need a break to see my family)
I am not going to put the heads on right now but I just wanted them because everyone else is using them. As for the rollers that is well needed. I have a convertor getting being built 3400 on motor and 4400 on nitrous. I think that that should get it down a little better.
Stall- food for thought -for someone Don't get hung-up on the stall on motor. 3400, 3000 is doesn't matter. What matters is what it stalls ON NITROUS and HOW IT STALLS. You have a transbrake so launching is not an issue. On your converter there is more to it than what rpm it stalls at. There are alot of variables internally that control how fast it locks up and the torque multiplication factor. If you just get a "4400" stall on nitrous doesn't mean its going to work thats why I recommend a very experienced converter builders such as ATI, Coan, ect. Some companies have "Race" converters but only have one base type of converter in each size to work off of so they only have ONE type of converter at a selected stall that may not be what your combination needs. You may get a converter that "hits" too hard and you can't 60ft with it. THen what??? Being your using a 9" it's not likely it will "hit" too hard. On a nitroused BBB with such a low stall, they tend to build converters that have too much torque multiplication in them(because they are so tight) so they hit too hard on the launch and you can never hook them up. You ask "your converter guy" for an adjustment and there's nothing they can do for you. You then end up buying another converter from someone that has experience and the ability to get what you need. Gearing can also make a difference on what kind of torque multiplication/hit you want. For example, a 3.70 and lower can take a harder hitting converter than a 3.90 and higher using a small tire. For example, I tried a 3.70(from a 4.30) gear with my powerglide and it didn't work. The car would launch soft and blow the tires off right at the end of the 60ft. The converter was locking up too late and didn't have enough "hit" to get the car moving and get the weight transfered. My 60 ft dropped from 1.32 to 1.42. Small 8" and some 9" converters will give you a "soft" launch your looking for but can't handle the torque of nitrous. A 9" can be built to work, Gary G. has one right now. I had an Art Carr "Full Tight" 9" that needed to be 1000+ rpm tighter and they could only make me a 10" that would work. Now other companies have the abilities to make a 9" tigher so it's all in who you use. THe Art Carr was a good converter but they just don't build them for low stall BBB nitrous applications to work on a small tire at my power level. 10" can be built tight enough but they natually have a higher torque multiplication factor which doesn't work with a high powered nitrous setup. I feel only an experienced company knows how to adjust this correctly. In the end, you get what you pay for. When you get to my level a $1000 is the entry fee on a good converter that works. But it seems when you start out trying to use that $600-$700 converter you can spend more than that trying to get it to work right. So in the end its a gambling game going with the less expensive converter. Learning can be expensive. It seems I don't buy much of anything any more under $500, most seems to start at $1000. Its funny though, you never seem to have the money in the first place but you always find a way to spend it twice when you try to cheat a little and it doesn't work out. :Comp:
FCOOFRAZ3, If it'll help, I have a fresh (Sept '04 build) ATI Competition 9" converter that I picked up as part of a package deal. It's number is A391-9904. You can call and check if it'll work for your application. For a 600+ish HP combo, 4:10 gear and 28" tire, the stall should be between 4500 - 5000. I run low 6.70s in the 1/8 with low 1.40 60' times. >> No Bottle, 430 iron heads. My current converter is a similar set up 9" Coan. My stall is about 4500. I have not run the ATI nor do I really intend to when I put my combo back together. You are welcome to it. I also have a used set of 1.6 T&D rockers at the shop if you haven't put the cash down on the new ones. I figure I'd be looking for about $600 for the converter (I think it's about $950.00 new) and $200 for the rockers (used but solid). PM me if interested or E-mail at Jhix.gsx@comcast.net Good luck on your tune. John
