I was ready for sound damp and carpet for my 69 skylark convertible, and was straightening out and grooming the harness when i noticed i was a couple wires shy for the rear armrest base lights. That started an investigation which led me to see part of the wiring harness that jacks into the steering column harness cut off. The loose wires were than connected to the wires coming out of the steering column with crimp connectors. Seems that the old harness must have burned up or been lost. Then, someone put a coupe harness in and butchered the harness and starting hooking things up one by one with electrical tape and crimp connectors ou: . I have two complete harnesses out of convertibles, one was a 71, and the other was a 72. I can't find any difference in the 71 at the connections. The harness is in real good shape, but i am worried about something not being compatible. All the correct wiring for power top is there. I am using the section that connects to the column and runs back to the rear of the car only. Anyone have any concerns?
Dennis, I am going by memory here but the 72 had the seatbelt buzzers...so I ***think*** they may have moved one or two of the wires. Seems to me the buzzer wire connects up on the 72 where the 71 had signal lights or something like that. Its not a big deal to move them around, but might want to compare old to the replacement connectors very carefully. Sorry mine are boxed up or I'd pull them out and look. I do know that I had to move a couple wires on my 72 for a 71 harness. Not sure about 69. later Tim
Hey Tim, I remember you now, I think, you had the convertible that had burned and you were restoring it, right? I used to have a link to your site in my favorites three pc's ago. I have often wondered how you are making out with that. In regards to the harness, i wish i had done some more homework prior to posting that message. After further investigation, the existing harness was cut at plug at steering column connection. All wires coming out of base of column where we see the wide flat plug connector was cut, male and female parts both. The wires are then spliced with pinch connectors. The main rear harness has the power top wires, but missing the wires for the rear arm rest courtesy lights. I have now pulled the dash guage cluster, steering column and am putting a tilt floor shift one in. That has corrected part of the problem. The main rear harness for the 70-72 has a flat plug where it plugs into the pigtail under the dash near fuse block, but the original one has a more square plug. Someone close by has one correct for sixty nine and hopefully i will get that this week. I do not want spliced wires if i can help it. This whole scenario plays itself out in this manner. At first when we see the whole picture, it is very mind boggling and confusing and seems like a major disaster. Then when we break it down piece by piece, everything becomes much simpler as we solve each problem. All the wires start to have a meaning and we start to look at them and know why they are there. In the end, we know that it is being done right. Do you still have a link to your site?
Hi Dennis, I do that too sometimes...post a message and then figure it out on my own. And you are right, once you break it all down it becomes pretty simple, really. Hopefully you get the correct harness and that makes it about perfect. Splicing wires isn't really a big deal, but I try to avoid it as well if possible. Big thing is to solder it properly and in a spot that is well protected and hidden, then usually two layers of heat shrink and it will last a lifetime. I actually enjoy working on electrical stuff (yeah I'm wierd!) Link for my wesbite is under my name in the posts, or just go to http://members.shaw.ca/ritc1 My ragtop is getting close, biggest problem with this project has been the quality of other businesses work. Average seems to be the best anyone can do anymore (esp with Chrome, wonder if the enviro stuff is causing issues?)...I am going to drive the car LOTS so thats ok I guess, there will be chips and nicks soon enough. BTW, if you want to sell the 72 harness, le me know.... later Tim
I looked at your avitar and already went to your site. Wow, you have come a long way since the last time i looked at it about a year or so ago. I need to straighten out this wiring mess, and then i should have a harness left over, probably one of each for 71, and 72. I need to score this 69 and whatever it costs me should be a fair price for one of mine. I have had trouble with the convertible top on my 69. The rear quarter windows will not quite reach high enough to seal against the weatherstrip on the conv. top. I have adjusted the windows as well as all the adjustments to the convertible top frame including the one along the top horizontal junctions. The best source for this that I could find was in the Buick repair manual for those years. I tried two different top assemblies and they both are fine along the front door windows but the angle is too high along the conv. top weatherstriping over the quarter windows. I just can't get it to hit, about a three quarter inch gap. I found conflicting information as to whether the top frames are different for 68/69 models, and 70-72 models. Both top frames were from the 70-72 models. The original 69 top was broken in a couple places, and rusted badly in others. I still have it and have measured every piece and compared all parts and they all seem the same. The only thing i haven't done is check the part numbers. Anyone have any new updated information about the top frames in regards to interchangebility? Dennis
Hi Dennis, once color starts flying it makes the work worth it (almost!). Let me know on harness once you get sorted out. As for the top issues, I remember reading about that. The manuals really are useless as they mostly explain a new top cover, and some minor adjustments.As you said 68-72 tops are all supposed to be the same but there really isn't any adjustment for height. The back hinge bolt is set in place, the windshield header is welded into place, and the two adjustments really don't do much, do they?? :laugh: I think the center adjustment is simply to make sure the top edge is correct once parts are together (ie, nice smooth curve transition). The aft programming arm supposedly will set the opening rate but I can't see how it would affect the top height for the problem you have. I mean if the header lines up and the forward side rail goes straight back level, then the middle rail must match that curve and the aft rail is pretty much set by the big bracket on the body. The only thing I could see **maybe** is if the header bow is too far forward, that would move the whole top frame side rail back a bit and change the angle of the 1/4 glass in the rear corner area....know what I mean? But you wouldn't get an even gap, it would be more open in the corner... Did you measure those big brackets at the back that bolt to the body? Maybe they are different somehow? I'd be very interested in any info about the different years too. If you still have your 69 stuff maybe just remeasure everything very carefully and something might jump out at you this time. You have the advantage as you have all the parts there, I only have one frame, and it has issues anyway at the moment... Once car is painted I'll be able to install my glass and check my alignment too. Question for you....if you have the 1/4 glass just in your hand can you fit it into place and does it go nice? Are all the edges parallel?? I won't ask the obvious questions cause you guys covered it pretty well in the other thread I thought... later Tim PS one interesting thing I found which may or may not matter is that the side rail assemblies have different p/n's for 68-70 and 71/72. Also aft siderail assy has 68-69 listed as different p/n than 70. There is no 71/72 listing. All the bows look to be the same 68-72. info from gm parts book circa 1978. Probably means nothing. Oh yeah, large bracket (male hinge) same 69-72 so scrap that idea above.
Ok, you remember when i posted this the first time about a year ago or so. Well at that time i had my 72 conv. in the bay next to the 69 only three feet apart and even took the quarter glass out and matched it to the 72 quarter glass, held it up againt the 72 top, and held it up against my 69 top. All were a dead match. The only thing it could be is where it bolts to the frame, and the only adjustment there is......the flange where it bolts to the body is adjustable as a swivel set up and actually will change the height of the sloping angle to the quarter glass, and i had it swiveled up as high as possible. The only other thing it could be is,,,,,,,,,,,,and i am reaching here,,,,,,is maybe the old material on both tops has shrunk so much, it is keeping the frame from stretching out all the way and relaxing down onto the quarter windows in the rear. I noticed that the rear window area and corners of the top material them selves were stretched out so tight it was almost keeping the header bow from mating up. I finally let go of that whole problem after it exhausted me to no end and was eating up alot of valuable resto time. My thoughts are that even after the car is all done, with new material on frame, if there is a problem, the top will remain down for a while and the boot will be on it and in the garage and i will have to take it from there. I am all done doing my interior and now the harness problem so i am close. So lately i have been peeking at the top again and starting to get concerned. In the mean time i still have my 70 gs clone to drive so i am not in a real big hurry. I am looking for a nice looking dash cluster, mainly a good looking heat/ac control bezel. One that has a decent finish with all the markings still looking nice. Got one? Has to have a/c. Dennis
Its an interestiing problem for sure. Even with all my monkeying with the top I still find that aft programming arm (with the serrated washer and bracket area) to be confusing. Mine always ended up near the top. Glass channels were in, didn't seem t be an issue but can't be sure until its in properly and run up and down. I'm kinda in the same boat, cancelled my top install, get the car painted and finished otherwise and then I can at least drive it with the top down, boot on. Will get serious with it once everything else is done (IF it ever gets done). I'm curious though, how much effect did that programming arm location actually have on the height of top rail? I wouldn't have thought it would be much. Sorry, don't have a decent bezel, getting tough to find. If you just need the a/c part you can buy the stickers to really make it look nice... later Tim
Hi Tim & all. Not to take over the tread, but your website is a real inspiration. (Good to see that someone started off worse than me :laugh: ) Thanks, I put it as a favorite. A nice and peacefull X-mas & new year to you all. Per. :beer :beer
(I'm curious though, how much effect did that programming arm location actually have on the height of top rail? I wouldn't have thought it would be much.) If you push the bottom of the bracket aft, it leans the first joint toward the front of the car actually helping the top reach forward some, but it also seemed to bring that last angle section down a bit. I need to take a look at the quarter window again and see if there is another way to make the rear part of the window pivot up. It is like these tops work fine from the factory, but after years of stress, you are on a wing and a prayer. I get so envious when I see another convertible at a show and it looks factory. I guess what we don't see is all the hours one has spent on all the adjustments. In one day, i unbolted the whole top, removed it, unbolted the one in my 72, installed it in my 69, saw that it was no different at all, put it back in the 72, and put the original 69 one back in. The next day, i did it again because i felt like i had found another adjustment that i hadn't tried previously on the 72 top. When i was done with that song and dance, i needed a break from it for a while, and decided that the car may stay in my garage for the rest of it's life and have a nice looking boot on it. Heck, you could even remove the whole assembly and loose some weight :Brow:. But after i calmed down I came to my senses. One thing for sure, the convertibles look much nicer with the tops down.
Hi Dennis, well that is interesting for sure on the bracket. I actually debated at one time about elongating those mounting holes for my issue but decided against it as they were already powdercoated and if there is a top problem, then solve that and not make other issues. It was a good choice. Anyway, I hear ya on the frustration, I spent many hours in the garage between my 12 hour shifts at work, two days it was nothing but top and work literally, top and work, I even forgot to eat one night. But the top install deadline came and that was that. I was not happy to say the least. I even measured and cross measured every point on the car to make sure it was not the body itself out of whack. Interesting on you removing and installing the tops. You didn't do that by yourself, did you??? uzzled: And I think you are right on the wear issue, I can plainly see the wear in my top assembly causing issues, but again, can't see that adding up to 3/4". I am looking into ways to rebuild them, I'd prefer to do it myself rather than ship it to someone who overcharges and then it gets wrecked in shipping or whatever. Too bad nobody repos brand new tops..or at least the siderails, wouldn't that be cool? Its the only section that really wears... Its funny you mentioned leaving out the top, I was actually going -at one point- going to leave out the top assy and the side glass, save about 300 (?) pounds and drive it like that until I could get the top in and covered. And Per, thanks for the kind words. I'll be honest with you, this car has been a real test of my character. I have almost parted it twice, almost burned it again (on purpose!), been taken to complete giddiness and complete frustration, had my finances strained and my whole hobby scrutinized...all I can say is I hope its fun to drive!! I knew it would be a challenge but I didn't realize just how BIG a challenge it would be.... The best part? This thread is in the electrical section!!! :laugh: later Tim
Well Tim, I am awaiting the harness now, and after that goes in, the dash cluster goes back in. The buckets and console and then paint. It is all in primer and ready for the finish coat. The car is actually going to be a light lavender similar to the stock color in the back of the showroom brochure in 69 which is more grey than lavender, along with a white interior. I just wanted something that looks cool and refreshing on a summer evening, a combo that the women would like. I have a new gun metal grey carpet that actually is almost a dead ringer for the ext paint. As I work on the top some more i will put some more posts in the "RAGTOP" section. I like emailinig as well, but here on the group, i can go back and read your posts later on information as needed. I am surprised that even this time, we did not get any feedback from anyone else on any problems they had with their conv's. Last time i ran some posts you were the only one that responded as well. I am looking forward to continueing our progress in the ragtop section to see if we get any info from anyone else. Dennis
I think most guys just get them recovered amd unless there are issues not much to learn or add I guess. Looking forward to the pictures, color sounds cool...!!! later Tim
