Fried Tranny or converter? ~(UPDATE)~ Hi all again, for those who read my last post know that i will be changing my tranny and heres the reason why. Im not sure if my tranny (TH-400) went or is going south or my converter. Ill try to make a long story short. No problems till about three weeks ago. I decided to romp on it for about 1/8 - 1/4 mle on the street:Brow:. Not something i do very much. Anyway, when i came to a stop i noticed a vibrating/rattling sound, like a muffler rattle sound but comming from the trans area. Soon as i started to drive i noticed alot of slippage. I wasnt too far from home so i started back home and it seemed to get a lil better as i drove home carefully. I just figured i blew the trans, I'm kind of expecting it soon anyway. About a week later started it up and it seemed to drive normally untill the tranny got hot or i romped on it. The tranny is a stock th400 with a B&M S/S shift kit, an external trans cooler and allways shifted fine. I was told 70K miles when i bought it and i put about 3K on it but knows the real mileage. Only problem it devolped was a leak from the front pump main seal. I never got to fixing it because was planing to just swap out that trans with another good one just so i could get the job done in one day. Could this little leak cause the tranny to burn up? Or maybe my B&M shifter is misadjusted? As for the converter, I bought it new about 2 years ago and it is a 9.5" 3000 stall converter. I hope this converter isnt bad. It could be though. I never got around to changing the rear gears so for the past 3K miles i've been driving with a 3000 converter and 2:41 posi. Doing this may have burned up my converter, right? Any one have any thoughts or imput? Trans bad? converter bad? Is there any possible way to test the converter before i re-install it? Should i just go with a stock converter untill i can change the rear gears? My motor build is in my signature Thanks~Vinny
does it slip on take off and is fine at cruse? if so then the stator overrunning clutch may be bad. the stator has to lock on takeoff and overrun at cruse and if it always overruns then take off will suck but cruse will be fine. if it is always locked then take off will be fine and there will be a hold back feeling at cruse. thats if it is the converter..... if its the tranny thats a different story. try starting off in manual first and if it doesnt slip then it may be the intermidate clutch.:beers2:
Im pretty new to autos and how converters work. Ive allways driven stick in my play cars and never realized how important the converters is. Before recently, the car would revv up to about 2000 and more when i would take off normally at a light or stop sign. It all ways shifted fine but felt kinda sluggush like its lacking alot of power. I just figured the 2:41 gears were the main cause. Not really thinking that i was putting a ton of stress on my converter. When people say slipping, i assume the car would just not really move, thats what im use to. To me a slipping trans equals pretty much a stuck car. If i went 1/2 throttle from a stop, i get no tire spin and again the car felt like it was lacking alot of power and i would just say it would get better when i change the gears. IF i wanted to spin the tires I would have to roll a little bit and the nail it about 3/4 of the way and i would get a decent spin like you would from a 305 0r 350 chevy, which is unexceptable but i just figured the gears suck and yada yada. When i drive on the parkway it seems pretty normal, to me. It curises at about 2200-2300 @ 55-60mph , which is very nice. Top end on the car is very nice too. Im guessing at both city and highway speeds my converter is slipping like crazy? Tranny is used with a front pump leak and converter was new. Bot have 3k miles on them. Think i most likely burt the converter? thats what im thinking... Im going to take it out for a ride in a little while and pay more attention to what sgoing on and repot back. Thanks~Vinny
Just got in from my test drive and im convinced its the converter. Here are all the symptoms: Good: -Fist second and third shift fine manually. In drive (automatic) it shifts fine on its own. -Accelerates as all ways does with light throttle with (engine warm and fully warmed) Bad: -Little bit of a whining noise comming from trans area when (engine warm) -Faint rattling sound when in drive and at a stop (warm) -Faint vibration in floor pan in drive at a stop (warm) -Whinning noise more noticabl when engine gets hotter (fully warmed up) -Acceleration feels kind of slippery and almost feels like a slight misfire(fully warm) -In park all noises are louder and more noticeable (fully warmed) -Sounds like a bad wheel bearing in park (fully warmed) I put my stethascope pointed on top of the trans where the converter is and i can hear the noises are comming from this area. Could it be loose converter bolts? I doubt it. Im really thinking my converter is shot. So, now i have an extra T-400. What i really need is a converter. Anyone have a stock one they need gone, locally? Im planning on fixing this problem this weekend. Any more imput would be great. Thanks~Vin
Hey Vin,it Could Be The Pump In In The Trans They Also Whine When They Go Bad I Had A Turbo 350 Do The Same Thing. I Was Wondering If Your Going To Sell The 400 Im Looking For A 400 To Build
Dude, i didnt really put much thought into that.....Its possible. However, the noise with my stethascope was stronger over the converter (closer to the front of the trans) then it was futher back where the pump would be. Forgot to mention that it also sounded like a really bad wheel bearing when i had it in park. (ill add that to the symptoms) Also, if it were the front pump i dont think it would shift as well as it does. It shifts perfect. As for the trans, ill keep you in mind. I may keep this one as a spare or build it. But the way things are going with me running out of room I may need to sell it, so ill keep you in mind. Shoot me a PM just so I dont forget. Thanks~Vinny
the gears in the pump whine normally you just cant really hear it..... most of the time. it is because the way the gears are designed and when they rotate inside the pump body they make noise. what i always do is chamfer the edges of the pump body where the inside gear rotates against and it doesnt make noise. if the gears are whining in the pump, it wont really affect the performance. if its a rattling then thats a different story. usually if its the pump then it would whine wether it was warm or cold.... if i could hear it in person then i could probibly tell you what exactly it is:beers2:
Maybe its a combo!:TU: haha.. the rattle really feels like the converter. Ill pack some bags and head west and see you in a few days so you can take a listen haha Or, better idea,:idea2: maybe if i have time tomorrow i can post a sound clip. Either way, i think im going to need a converter. It would probably be my best bet to go back to a stock converter untill i can afford to swap out the rear gears to 3:08 or 3:45 The pump now whines warm and cold. Louder when its hot though. Ive never heard this trans or any auto whine before. Thought that was really a manual trans thing. This is good to know Thanks~Vin
another thing to think about is if the converter took a dump then it sent all the metal and crap into the trans and is now lodged in the rubber seals and clutches...... can you say, rebuild .......:beers2:
HUmmm, this is true. So, anything I sould look for when i pull out the trans and converter? Besides the obvious checks. Any tips? tricks to test? Thanks~Vin
examine the fluid like your life depends on it. take the pan off and make sure there isnt any metal or crap in it from the gears. check the play of the input shaft too, it should be tight in the hole. there isnt really anything thay you could check for unless you take the tranny appart.:beers2:
Re: Fried Tranny or converter? (UPDATE) Well I finally got to swapping out my trans with the replacement. Im not sure if I should have started a new thread or not. I figured to keep this one going and hopefully may be helpfull to others. Heres what I found. The bad tranny's fluid seemed to be normal. Good color and very minimal metal. Mostly a little metallic in the fluid and pan. Heres the part I cant explain and hopefully some one can. Half of the front pump shaft was ground down. I looked down inside of the torque converter and cant really tell if the startor's (i guess) bearing teeth are ground down too. They look to be in good condition, nothing rattles inside and the fluid was clean. Take a look at the pictures. Maybe some one here know how this happened and what caused it.
The fact that the splines are stripped may indicate a problem with the one way clutch in the converter. Before using it again the converter should be inspected by a competent shop to make sure things are OK. You can try your own diagnosis with this info: http://tombirch.com/1/ppt/inspect_torque_converter.ppt Devon
looks like the stator siezed up and stripped the splines off. that was what i said in my first post. (number 2 in this thread) what i neglected to say in that post is that sometimes when a stator siezes, it will strip the splines off and give the symptom of a overrunning stator. DO NOT reuse that converter. even if by some miricle the stator is ok, it chewed the stator support shaft up and it will probibly do it again. besides, i guarantee theres a bunch of metal in it and if you reuse it you will fill the new tranny with metal to get lodged in the clutches and seals. randy:beers2:
I cant seem to open that link. I dont have the program to open it i guess. Could you post or send it another way?? I am going to bring the converter to a shop and see what they say. I just really want to know how this happened. Its seems like someting seized up. And why only half the shaft is torn up. Whay not more? mayby the converter has the wrong parts inside it? Thanks~Vinny
on some trannys the stator is smaller then the stator support shaft to give it room to move around a little but you are right, that does look like a little much. maybe the torrington bearing (thrust bearing) in the converter took a dump, caused the stator to flop around and sieze, and strip the splines off. who knows. theres no REAL way of telling you other then to have the trans and tc here and cut the tc open. that would be the best way. randy:beers2:
It must have been the stator in the converter then.......My take off got weaker when the car warmed up but cruised fine. The gears shifted as all ways, good. I guess the converter took a dump but my trans is fine, except for the spline.. ok well, thanks for your help everybody... I started a new post about the converter that i used to replace this one that went bad. I have a question about it, turn the page... Thanks~Vinny
