I think that 3.8 is probably a lot safer bet than the 60 degree engines. There are definitely some nice GM cars... just not any that I own!
Good for you steve! I also won't ever buy a GM unless it's a classic. I have a folder about 1.5 inches thick of things that didnt work on our Chebby wagon. Chebby cars stink, they put there money into there Trucks, Where the money comes in. Pontiac i have no idea and would'nt even try. Caddy & Buick would be great with no problems. GMC is just like Chebby trucks. If i was gonna buy another car for daily driving i would buy a Toyota. Famiy had them since 78'. No problems ever! Just my opinion. And a few facts thrown in here or there.
One day in the shop for every 746 miles on the clock told me to NEVER buy a GM product ever again. That's a bunch of shop days in 50,000 miles. What is worse than this record, is the fact that GM treated me like it was my mistake to buy a lemon they sold. What bastards! :moonu:
My family has never had any problems with the newer fords! My moms old taurus(276,000 miles when she sold and got a 1994 oldsmobile cutlass, 142,000 and still running storng, no mechanical or big problems for either car), and my grandpa has a 2003 ford mustang 5 speed V6 pony package, 7k, still running strong. My uncles 1993 pontiac sunbird-zero problems, I could go on down the line untill I get to our neighbors 1994 honda civic with 32,000 miles-he said to us that he traded it in on a 1995 ford taraus because he got sick of having the windows not working and the a/c blowing out and having the cruise control fade out on the highway, so he traded it in on a 1995 ford taraus, and it's still in their driveway so i suppose it works fine. I know that new cars have their problems too, but we've had good luck with them -Cody
Get the pontiac vibe, cool looking car, made by toyota! win win situation, toyota quality, pontiac emblems!
I think most anyone on this board should know better than to buy a Chevy. Even a Chevy badged under another name. Ya get what you get when you buy a Chivy. ou:
Ken, there was zero rust on that car, on weekend I buffed it out and it looked brand new!!! The only cometic damage was a dimple in the trunk lid. Seems a ford C-4 will not fit in the trunk of a Suby. Just a little dimple, dime sized. And you know what, I still catch crap from my wife about it!!!! Ten years ago, and still hearing about it...
Idon't know why you people moan and groan about american cars and foreign cars because they are all mix breeds with the same problems. I work at an indepedent shop and we get them all. Hondas with broken timing belts bent valves, Pontiacs with blown intake gaskets 3.1L ,Toyotas with bad head gaskets,oil leaks and bad valve guides 3.0L. I could go on and on just like Clint wrote it is all maintenance. I have a Dodge Tk. with 236,485 miles on it and a side from regular maintenance it has been great ,oh the paint is falling off as well.
Working at a GM dealership (as a technician Buick, Pontiac, GMC ) I see all the problems that you guys have experienced. And if someone asked my opinion on what to buy, I would still say a GM product, but dont pass on the GMPP extended warranty (max you can get) with a zero deductable. I havent worked for the other makes, so I cant speak on their behalf, but I like to remain brand loyal to a point. Every car line has their problems, others more than some, but I just like the look and feel of the GMs. If you buy a GM product, remember......GMPP!!!!!
But when has the Grandam not bee a piece of crap car. [unless new] ???? Ever since they came out they were low buck 2 steps above a chevette cars.
Umm, I work for Toyota, as a service manager. I have personally seen EVERTHING that can go wrong. Most of it is small stuff, and lack of maintenance by the owner. Some is just luck. Toyota has a great goodwill program too...if you are not an ***hole about it. We bought a Ford dealer about 2 years ago, they do about 70% warranty work...we at Toyota do 8%. These are true numbers guys, they don't lie. The other manufacturers are trying to catch up to Toyota quality for a reason, they are built better. Oh ya, about 90% of the cars we sell are built in America by Americans. Its the quality control process that makes the difference. Overall, import "brands" have better build quality, but the domestics are closing in...good for them. Toyota has risen the bar. But hey, if they lasted for ever with 2 oil changes , I wouldn't have a job, in which to make $$$ to spend on my 70 Lark!:laugh:
Just have to throw my two cents in. I would have to say that you can find the bad side of any make but your quote on the % of warranty work proves that our troubles run deeper than processes. Look at the facts: 1. In order to save a few pennies GM went the cheap route starting in 96 on the V6 intake manifold gasket sealer. There have been thousands of these gaskets replaced (my mechanic did 90+ last year alone) But of course no recall unless it's a safety issue. 2. There was a decade or two where this country could not turn out anything but junk. I believe it was either 77 or 79 when Ford actually recalled more units than they sold. 3. Chrysler had to have the Feds bail them out. 4. The foreign automakers (even the ones made in this country) don't tolerate Union tactics. Locally here where the GM SUVs are put together the Union actually fought GM over drug testing and the fact that GM did not involve the Union before firing a few guys who were caught in the plant (on camera) selling dope. This past winter there was a story in our local paper about a couple hundred GM Delphi workers that had been reporting to work at a meeting hall (for over a year) only to sit and play cards everyday because of a labor dispute and they weren't permitted to work. They were receiving full pay and benefits. Now in order to survive the Union has had to play ball a little more. The same local plant was just named as one of the top auto mfg facilities in the area of quality. We can do it when we want to. It shouldn't take the foreign makes forcing us into the corner to compete. 5. Now regarding the foreign guys, remember their little processes were taught to them by Demming after WWII. Without American Know How they wouldn't be where they are today. 6. GM announced it was investing $3 billlion, yes that's billion, in China over the next 5 years and they will begin mfg and selling Cadillacs there. We better wake up. 7. Toyota chose Georgetown Ky. as the place to build their plant years back. Why is that? Because they were offered such great tax breaks. But down the road the a major US mfg had to relocate and take their mfg overseas. Nothing wrong with the tax breaks in trade for job creation but it ought to be a level playing field. This isn't about cars. It's just another big business. Thanks I feel better
Thanks for confirming what I have already found out the hard way. They ARE better cars, no matter what any GM loyalists here will say. I wish it wasn't true- that GM was as good. I prefer to buy American. But, why would I throw my money away again? I've been burned once too many times now.
I don't know about new GM cars, but I always thought ford had good quality cars/trucks etc. I will always love the old GM cars, but I like some of the new ones too. Maybe they aren't good quality wise, but doesn't practically all new cars have problems. Laugh and make fun of ford all you want, but quality wise, they have reasonable warranty, very good looking products, and they are built very good safety wise and quality wise. We have more newer fords in our family now than we did in the past, and some of the fords in our family has outlasted alot of the GM products and chrysler that we've had in the past. I still like newer GM cars, but don't know if I would want one since our family has me hooked on newer fords. -Cody
Don't get me wrong, I love old GM products (up to 1972 or so). Toyota's production system was not given to them by an American. Financing after WW2 might have helped, but thier system is continually being copied by the "big three". If we trained them, we would have the advantage, not them. The first Toyota's that arrived here in the 50's were terrible for the American driver. They pulled out of the American market mostly, and came back strong in the late 60's. They are the benchmark for quality control at this point. Even I, must report to Toyota if something odd is found, and they do listen. 10 years from now things may be alot different!
I don't know but to me quality is in the type of material that is used.... A good example is the CV joint boots.....the Japanese cars use rubber. GM uses a plastic material. I have never had one fail in any of my GMs....all cars over 100K and a couple over 200K and 20 yrs of use. Changed lots of em on Japanese cars.....think the Korean ones are better? Don't think so..... Nissans boots are particularly cheap...... One more point I'd like to make......cars with long warranties aren't necessarily better (Hyundai 10yr/100K). I hear it all the time: "must be a good car, it has a 10/100 warranty". They do that to sell cars....like Chrysler did 7/70K years ago to get people to buy when they had trans problems. Hey I was born in Japan but you won't catch me driving one that I own........ Bruce
If you get a Honda in with a broken timing belt its because the LAZY AZZ owner didn't keep the service up on it and the belt braking bent the valves.......We see folks piss and b!ch all the time but its there own lazy tight selfs that won't keep the maintenance up on their cars, they all gonna break if done like that.
Timing belts....who needs them. I like chains..... Timing belts/chains and CV boots shouldn't be maintenance items IMO.
