Has anyone heard what kind of numbers the guys at the Engine Masters are putting down. They should have started dynoing yesterday?
The Buick didn't dissapoint........624 HP and more importantly,Torque was above 500ft/lb from 3000-6500 and over 590ft/lb between 4300 and 5100 with a peak of 600 even. This very impressive motor used aluminum Stage 1 heads and a very streetable BULLIT cam. The Buick cam in a close 3rd behind a Butler Pontiac and first place was a Ford by John Kaase. Plenty of good for the Buick Fans!
Thanks for the update. I have searched all over the web for info. How did the cadillac's do with those new aluminum heads? Thanks again. Donovan
I talked to Joe Sherman, Joe Sherman Race Engines, 2002 Small Block Engine Masters Champ, he said he runs his Big Block today, (Fri., they saved him for last) so I don't think that a Ford has won it yet. He had mentioned that the Caddy did very well, impressed many, no, I don't have any numbers. I also talked to TA Mike, the Bruce Kent motor was doing excellent, averages at 1200hp thru the 3500-6500 rpm range, but motor started to go away, final averages were around 1025hp. Should be interesting, Sherman told me that his dyno pulls showed 750 hp. I will be showing him some serious Buick horsepower a week from Sunday, He's dynoing my Stg. 2 Nitrous 470. Very anxious to have this happen, I'll let the "group" know after. Gary Giessen
Actually my final score was a dissapointing 1009. To fully understand the scoring you need to visit www.enginemasters.com then go to "enginemasters challenge" and review the rules and scoring. It will make more sense then. I made some bad decisions in the final few days which resulted in the engine hurting itself on each subsequent pull. Probably against better judgement, I gave them the green light to finish the pulls. I didn't want to be a DNF. I was lucky it made it to the end. I feel badly for all the people who helped me in the final hours especially Mike at TA who spent 4 days supporting me but again all the final decisions were mine. It was a fantastic experience (but expensive) and I would do it again. There is a small group including the PHR people who saw the dyno results from a week before and saw the potential. But none of that matters on race day. This was a perfect niche contest for the Buicks and many of the contestants expected them to do well. The build up will be in the December issue of PHR. Some things changed slightly as the build progressed such as head flow numbers as we pulled those down some to improve the low flow numbers. I plan on submitting articles to the two major Buick newsletters detailing the journey. Bruce Kent
Hey Bruce, "A" for the effort, also remember that your build-up story will get more people interested in the big bad Buick. You also have the Twin Blown Beast build-up/magazine stories under your belt. And, not to forget your impressive racing record. You've proved yourself many time over in this crazy hobby we love.....to spend money on to go FASTER! Gary Giessen
Hey Bruce, I talked with Mike the other day about your experience. It must have been stressful and disappointing for you and Mike both. I will say if there wasn't any engine failure you guys would have won this contest. Thanks for all of your hard work. I as a Buick enthusiast appreciate guys like Mike and yourself. Take Care and Thanks Again.
Just to clarify.....The Buick I wrote about was by Automotive Machine and Performance and was dynoed at Comp Cams in Memphis I didn'y realize how many Buicks got in this time.
hey bruce what ever happened to the car with twin blowers on it? i havent heard anything about it for awhile
Thanks for the thoughts and comments. It was a tremendous learning experience and I know where I would have scored if it weren't for the problems and errors in judgement. I have to be satisfied with that. I can't make it to Las Vegas. My wife tolerated alot in the past 5 months so it's her turn and Las Vegas isn't on her list. Besides I have nothing that runs right now. Dave Benisek offered me his Apollo to bring but I have to refer back to the sentence above. As for the supercharged engine it slowly get pieces picked off of it. The bearings and gears burned up in one of the superchargers. Aparently there was a design flaw with the seals and the engine vacuum would suck the oil from the gearbox. Always wondered why it smoked idling through the pits. Anyway they wouldn't warrantee them so my only option would be to buy new ones and that won't happen soon. That project was such a maintenance nightmare. I was always happy to see it make it back to the pits on its own power. Bruce Kent
I talked to Mike Phillips at AMP about the challenge, and there may be some facts that most are not aware of. Mike built a street engine, so he kept the compression down to 10.8 to 1 with alum heads so it would live on pump gas. The stuff he cometed against was 12 to 1 or better, so actually the little 470 inch Buick did veery veery good against some of the best builders in the country. My hat is off to Mike Phillips for a very well deserved 3rd place here. Jim Burek P.A.E. ENTERPRISES
I don't want to take anything away from AM&P, but as far as I know, they all had to run 92 octane spec fuel. If the others gained an advantage by running higher compression, then it's not because they ran race gas, but because they built the engine to run on pump gas despite the higher compression.
Not to speak for Mike and I hope I'm not out of line but it was my impression that his objective was to showcase his crate engine program which is exactly what he did. My understanding was that this was an engine he was building for a customer and after the contest was over it was going into the customers car. It wasn't his intention push the envelope it was to build a true street engine. I don't think Mike had any time for testing as he was sick the week prior to the contest. I believe he finished 3rd in his division which is far better than I did. There were 2 basic groups competing. The ones showcasing their street engine programs and this was a means of getting exposure. The other group was the ones going for the pot of gold. These were the "ringer" engines. Low tension ring packages, higher compression, thermal coatings, etc. This is where I was. Unfortunately I went down in a ball of flames. There is so much more good info below the surface here. What Mike's customer went away with was a true pump gas engine that made over 500 ft/lbs of torque at 3000 and peaked at just over 600. I believe the horsepower peaked around 650 hp. It is one very flat torque band (can't hardly call it a curve) and the horsepower band probably is very linear with no big drop off at the top. What will come out of the ringer engines will be that there may be some middle ground that the crate engine group can move towards and still be safe and provide even more performance and the ringers can back off slightly in some areas and wind up with a killer streetable engine. Everyone wins especially the consumer. Just my take on the subject. Bruce Kent
Could have been worse Bruce. http://www.realoldspower.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=814 Sorry to hear about the twin blower engine being down too. I really like that engine. :bglasses:
My 470 is the precurser to the engine masters challenge motor. Mike indeed builds motors that will run on 92 octane pump fuel. Standing watching the dyno, I saw my motor go 592 horsepower and 597 ft. lbs. of torque. It was over 500 hp from 4400 rpms through 6300 rpms where we stopped the pull. It was also over 500 ft. lbs. of torque from under 3500rpms where we started the pull through 6100 rpms. This was with minimal tuning because the engine is not girdled and we wanted to cut it off at 600 horsepower. With a girdle and more tuning......who knows!
phr engine masters i looked at that online and it seemed biased toward the big 3 but i was surprized to see a couple of cad engines entered.i think they were afraid of the buick engine in there as car crafts engine shootout(oct2001) the buick toped the list and might have hurt sales(or egos). here is something for them :moonu: andy
470 master challenge Bruce how much power was the engine making with out the gas how much gas did you use to make 1200 hp witch solid cam did you use how did the head gaskets hold up what happen to the motor :spank:
Bruce I was wondering how the fuel cell foam worked in the oil pan? Have you tried this before? What is the expected life of the foam in the oil pan? Any pictures of this? Did it effec oil psi ? Thanks Mike
Engine Masters It sounds like you guys are really in the know about what's going on behind the scenes. How did the finals of the shoot out finish up? It takes too long for these mag articles to come out. JIMo No:
