Hey Duane, I saw your posts on tb.com regarding GN stickers/decals. One thing in particular I noticed were statements by people that some decals/stickers were being made, but were minus the factory part number for the sticker. My question is whether the lack of part numbers is a deduction in judging? My logical thinking tells me that it is or should be if it isn't. Without the appropriate factory markings, how is it still original or as original? Is the position consistent among all parts or different depending on the part? For example, the stickers don't have part numbers. What if another part doesn't have a certain marking (such as GUIDE or SAE on lenses)? What about the lack of a part number on something like a coolant lid or tank? Just curious what da Judge has to say about where the lines are drawn! Alan
Alan, Thats a very good question and I hope I can give you a good answer. Currently when we judge the Concours class at the GS Nationals we look for fit, finish, and correctness of parts. We do not take points off for reproduction parts as long as they mimic the original parts they are made to replace. We do not generally look for part numbers on parts, other then some obvious things. We will check that a 70 car has a 70 appearing engine, but not that it is numbers matching. Here is an example. If a 70 GS 455 (Model # 44637) is in Concours and has a 350 in it, that would be a deduction. If it has the wrong 70 455 in it, that would be fine with us. If the same car has heads with a 72 cast into them, that would be a deduction. The important thing to remember is we have 10-15 minutes to judge each car, and we do not look at them as if we were going to buy them. I don't think it would matter to the judges if a sticker has a part # on it or not, but it obviously does to most buyers, and if someone comes out with a "Correct" Licensed version then everyone will buy them and not the incorrect versions. On the GN/GNX cars many of the stickers have bar codes, some are even date coded. If I reproduce any of these I am sure if they are scanned the bar codes will not come up as the part number, they will probably come up as a can of tuna or something like that. I have no intention of using a scanner to see if the decals are correct when I judge a car in Concours, but having the right bar code/date on a sticker might be important to some people that are interested in keeping their cars perfect. Another thing we don't look for are date codes on parts. The only time we look at date codes at all is to verify that a car Exhibited as a GSX was actually built within the correct time period. We also check the VIN and Body #s to verify the various GS models. The "Concours Class" is basically a restored class. The next level up from this would be a "Platinum Class". This would use a 1000-point judging format and in this class all reproduction parts would be 50% deductions. This would include tires, glass, interiors, oil filters, decals, etc. At this level every difference from original would be critical. The only problem with this is that only a few cars could survive such scrutiny. To sum it all up, currently we do not check date codes or part #s when we Judge the Concours Class. Will this change in the future, not if I can help it. The idea is to help GS owners restore their cars to a high level of perfection, not to knock 98% of them out of the class, or to make them too expensive to restore. As to the other side of the date code/part number thing, we car owners are a conservative group of people. We tend to be sticklers to detail, and do not like to see any differences between original and reproduction parts. This is obvious from the posts on both this and the V6 BB. Whether points are deducted or not, the buyers demand a certain level of correctness for the parts they purchase. If the reproduction parts are not good enough, people will complain and look for NOS parts. I hope this helps answer a bunch of questions people have about the Concours class. Duane
Thanks Fascinating info. Would love to hear more about judging. Too bad there isn't a Q&A seminar at the nats on it where the rules are distributed. Alan
Alan, If you want the Concours judging rules go to my website www.classiccarinteriors.com The entire set is there and you can print it out. Make sure you have plenty of paper. I think it is 22 pages long. If you go to the restoration clinic we can have a Q&A on the rules there. I also am doing a small article about the GSCA Concours judging that I will send to the GSXtra. Rick said he will also put it in the Buildsheet. Duane
