Discussion in 'The "Paper Trail"' started by IlliniGSX, Dec 2, 2019.
F-7 WG 15x7 G-60 Ploy Glass.
Yeah I’ve got 2 cars I want documented also
IMHO - Partly in defense of Sloan and Wayne it does take time to actually look up the information and prior to the documents being digitized you had to get the microfilm out, put it in the old crusty reader and scroll through the literally thousands of pages of cars to find the correct one. Then you had to write down all the information and present it in some format that makes sense to the person who owns the car. Sloan has to pay staff to do that. I am not saying that is all the cost but I also don't think it is unreasonable to spend $50 or $100 to document your cars that are with $10, $20, 30 or up to $200K. Most owners are not fortunate enough to have that information available. Ask the folks that own 1971 cars what they would pay to document their cars.
As an example, prior to the digitizing I made a trip to Sloan and sat in the museum for a week scanning the 1972 documents to find all 44 GSX. It was a brutal task. Even after being digitized there are no search capabilities because the digitizing is an image not actual text and the text is so compact you can not just use OCR to create the text.
I, like others, have spent hundreds if not thousands of hours documenting cars, processes, digging through information and spending my own money just to gather data on the cars.
The dealer code list had to be typed by hand to transfer the information from the dealer code lists at Sloan and other sources to a searchable and usable document. That document alone cost me way more than $100 and hundreds of hours of work and I gave all of that away for free.
Based on my experience spending $50 or $100 dollars to get information on your car with little to no additional effort seems like a real bargain.
Had no problem, I had Wayne last year document my 70 stage one although I really didn't need it I have the window sticker protector plate. He. Even call me back with a question about a code on the window sticker. Cost $150.
That's what makes it even worse he like Scott Brown only returns calls to whom he feels like,.when he feels like it
Also got in touch with him when I wanted to verify the double blue Stage 1 4 - Speed that I was looking at that was for sale here on the board he actually went and looked at it for a customer.
...perhaps acquisition costs, facility maintenance, media transfer costs, and something for time/effort. Personally, I was extremely happy to be able to do research without a trip to Flint...
Well put, Mark.
I think people forget that some poor sucker had to actually schlep through all these documents, just so it's fingertip ready for the rest of us.
As an aside, publicly bashing the guy with the goods is probably not going to speed up the process, though. No one has actually told me this was why it takes as long as it does but I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to surmise that definitely wouldn't be helpful.
I mean, this is a public forum, so....
I called Sloan a couple years ago to inquire about a 72 GS Stage 1 Convertible I asked her if she could verify if it was a factory stage one I gave her the Vin number and she came right back and said yes it is would you like documentation she didn't asked how soon I needed it One week or two weeks was cheaper.
Mark is spot on, and I hope my post didn't come across as bashing. I simply wonder why the "guy with the goods" will respond to some but not others. He can charge whatever he wants and the customer has to decide if the product is worth it. Me? No telling what I might pay to get the information on my '71 that Wayne and Sloan can provide for '70 and '72 models.
There's also rumor and innuendo that a few people here may know where it is, and who has it. If it's not in ashes, I hope some day to see it available before they outlaw gas vehicles!
The fire rumor has been dismisses by some prominent members of this forum. If they've been 'seen' someone must have good reason to keep them unpublished, at least for now.
I wouldn't complain about a reasonable fee for the information and time needed to extract it. It's only fair.
Is Wayne a member here?
That I don't know but given he's active on Facebook and in the Buick community, I wouldn't be surprised if he stopped in once in a while.
Wayne Roberts owns at least one business and is very busy with that alone. I also do not know what time he has to put into the research to do a vehicle, but am sure there is time involved. I also do not know how much time he has available to do this type of thing anymore. Maybe that is the issue.
I personally have decoded plenty of Build sheets for people and have proven many Stage 1's and GSX's, which has increased the value of these cars from 10,000 to over 100,000 in some cases, and I only charged $20.00 to do it. I even had some people balk at spending $20.00 for the service and some refused to do it. I guess they expected me to "give away" my research when I spent almost 20 years cross-referencing everything to figure out all the codes...…………...and at the time I was the ONLY game in town, because the microfilm had not been found yet.
I also have been accused of not calling people back, and will be the first to say that it is true. Sometimes life gets in the way, and other things take precedent, or things get forgotten. If that has happened to you, just give me a call/PM, text, piece of tree bark, etc., and let me know.
I understand why they charge a fee and from the prices that have been mentioned it seems like a fair price. It would just be nice for ALL the GSX owners to be able to get the info not just a select few chosen ones. If all GSX owners were to approch Wayne and sloan and contribute a "one time fee" all together maybe that would be enough for them to upload it all publicly for all to see and use?
Wayne Roberts financial service I used to have his other phone number in my phone.
I have had Wayne document Two GSX's for me as well as one Stage1. Wayne has always been great to deal with. I do know he is extremely busy and this is just something he does on the side for his love of Buicks. If you're unable to reach him I suggest trying again multiple times and understand this is not his job its his hobby.
...thankfully I have my POP. Lots of what I learned came from members here, and some from internet research. When I ran out of resources, I went to Sloan's '72 Flint (GS convertibles built there) data for my dealer, to see if I could "reverse engineer" destination charge from invoice amount ('72s until Dec same prices), plus gain insight into dealer's ordering preferences. Destination charge scheme didn't work...clearly I don't understand invoicing well enough...
..."lines" on page images are sorted by serial#, and data is in "columns" on lines. You have to scroll thru pages focusing on specific columns you're looking for. First, I spun thru data until I found end of a-bodies and noted page#. Taped strip of paper with column labels at top of screen. Started over, looking for my zone/dealer#. When found, hand copied relevant "line" data into Excel.
What I learned:
Data has errors, and subject to misinterpretation, thanks to originals being handwritten. For me, most obvious errors in option codes.
Dealer ordered 2 GS convertibles for entire year...no wonder I can't find anything.
Shipper was Matson from first of model year to April '72 when switched to SeaTrain. Based on month changed, Matson was my shipper (late May '71 build).
POP Options can only validate up to 10 options since it uses single-digits 0-9. My GS currently has 29 including interior/paint/top. Dealer ordered 17 a-bodies, 4 were customer orders. Seeing what dealer ordered on other 13 has helped with changes/additions...
Yes he is,
Hasn't been around in over a year. That's too bad...I'd like to buy him a beer since he lives in my neck of the woods.