I NEED to do tune up on the Riv. but I don't feel like messing with the points right now. Do you have to change them? I was thinking about just doing wires, plugs, oil and filter.
I suppose it depends on your idea of a tune-up...... I think you can just check them and adjust them if they're not too bad.
Yea. I never messed with them is why I'm trying to avoid it at the moment. Until I can get my car to a place where I can leave it for a bit I'm not trying to mess with them either. Have to move my car everyday from side to side. What about the point eliminator kit? Have you heard of any difficulties/problems with these?
Points are cheap and easy to replace, the only tough thing is finding a dwell meter if you don't have one. Nowadays you can only buy brand new multimeters with a dwell feature for HUGE money. I looked around for old cars in my neighbourhood and started knocking on doors until I found someone with a dwell meter I could rent off him for the weekend. The existing points on my car had contact surfaces that weren't parallel to each other. I could have filed them down but then I'd need to reset the dwell anyway. So for a couple bucks I got a new set with new condenser and everthing and put them in when I changed the cap and rotor.
I'm in the same boat as you, have only owned my Skylark since last fall (2011) it runs pretty well as is all I've changed is the oil and filter, and spark plugs. I've thought of going to the points conversion as well, and I though I read somewhere you have to change out the coil. I"m not certain. I say do what you feel comfortable doing, and enjoy your car for the summer.
I like working on my car but this is one of the things that I will find annoying I think. I'd rather not have to worry about all of that. I'd think I'd rather have to do this ONCE than worrying about points at any other point. I think I'll just do the wires, plugs and oil for now. The car starts right up as is and doesn't miss or anything. That oil gotta go though!
Awww, fer crying out loud,,,, man up and replace the points and condenser .....:laugh::laugh: For starters,,,, before you take out the old ones,,, rotate the engine untill the dist cam point is directly under the point rubbing block....and remove the rotor button to get it out of the way,,, then remove the old points and condencer.... AND THROW THEM AWAY.... next,, take a rag and a little bit of solvent and clean the cam.... wipe it dry and then with your finger put a bead of wheel bearing grease the size of a BB shot on the cam and smear it all around.... next, install the new points and condenser and hook up all the wires... make sure the hold down screws are good and tight... but dont strip them out....now to ''set'' the points.... the rubbing block is against the point of the cam ,,, right,,,, now , advance the adjusting screw untill you have a gap between the points [thas the 2 little round metal jobbies at the end of the point assembly:laugh:] Adjust the gap untill you can just fit a .017 feeler gage or a business card in between the 2 points.... then stop.... this will be, usually 31/32 deg. of ''dwell''..... then just replace the rotor,,, install the cap and wires and then set the timing.... THERE IS A ORDER THAT THIS HAS TO BE DONE OR THE ENGINE WILL BE OUT OF TUNE.... 1. INSTALL THE NEW POINTS AND SET THEM TO .017 2. then set the basic engine timing with the vacume line disconnected.... and bolt it down.... 3. let the engine warm completely up for 20 mins....... 4. then set the idle screws to a smooth idle and adjust the idle speed.... A complete major tune up on a vintage car consists of... 1.Overhaul the carb.... and adjust it 2. remove and replace the points/condenser/ dist cap, rotor/ spark plugs/ and spark plug wires.... 3. set the engine timing..... 4. check the vacume advance for proper operation.... 5. warm up the engine and if it has adjustable valves remove the valve covers and adjust the valves.... 6. retork the head bolts and the intake manifold bolts.... with the engine warmed up.... some mechanics readjust the valves even if it has hydrolic lifters and they are adjustable... but this is very messy unless you take special care.... and this is the way we did it in the ''good old days''......:laugh::laugh:
I agree with Doc for the most part. Point maintenance + replacement is one of the most basic car care skills to have. If you have points, you need to know how they work, what bad points look like, and how to fix repair or change them. They might be fine today, they might break down somewhere, some time, and leave you stranded. If you don't want to mess with them, I would say to definitely go to a modern setup. I learned to do points maybe at age 15 or 16, without help. You can get a vintage dwell meter off ebay for 9.99-20.00 + SH. They are a dime a dozen on there, and you can probably get an NOS one for that. Not a Snap-On of course, but one that will do the job. If you go to a large flea market, you will see them. If it's a car flea market, there will be scads of them. I must of seen 100 of them or more at Carlisle last Fall. You need to know there are different kinds of points...unipoints, heavy duty points, regular points and cheap points. In the old days points were mostly solid, 2 tiny pucks touching each other. Then they started making points with holes drilled in the center, I guess for cooling and to cheap out! Look for solid points, they are better and used for HD aps. In the old days the wires attached with a screw, today many just clip on. A screw type is better. If you do buy points, ask if they have a heavy duty set. They will probably have the good features for a few bucks more. Know that in a pinch, you can use a matchbook cover to gap them or check the gap. 'Course trying to find a matchbook today is almost as hard as finding a dwell meter. If you learn to change them, then you will know how to check them if you break down, and you will know what what to look for. Find an old car guy to help you + mentor! I can't be the only one.........
Points are SO reliable. I change back to them when I get a converted car. If you are a racer, with a hipo engine, electronic will be a benefit. Below 4500 RPM, I like points. This Actron dwell/tach/voltmeter has been used by uncountable mechanics for 40 years. Every tool box should have one! http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00902165000P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1
Yep what Frank says,,, and I might add,,,,When I was racing,,, I would buy the regular duty points,,, and then take them apart and bend the spring around backward,,,, that made it a lot stronger and then the points would go all the way up to 7000 rpm on the distributer machine without ''floating''...... coupled with a capacitive discharge ign. system, I had real hot fire all the way thru the rpm range that a Buick would do....and last for 50,000 miles before needing changing again..... There are tricks that can be done with points to make them perform better....:Brow:
I learned on cars with points. While still in engineering school in the late 60s, I read an article about experimental capacitor discharge ignition boxes. I bought a kit based on an ad in a magazine and put one together for my 63 Vette. But this electronic ignition was rare. A few manufactuers had just begun to offer electronic ignition as an option. (Olds in 67 and some Vettes). People could see the silver metal box under the hood of my Vette and kept asking me what it was and how could it be better than points. Like anything knew, people were very skeptical. But after using the two types of ignition since the 60s, I can honestly say the either can leave you on the side of the road. Just let those points get burned or closed up and you will see what I mean. Changing them in advance as a part of a tune up is a good way to avoid being left stranded. Plus keep a new set in the glove box.
Doc and others have it nailed. However, I'd like to "point" out that electronic ignition was developed because wear and tear (and lack of attention by John Q. Public) on the points was the principal cause for high emissions...coming from a smog mechanic in that era- the '70s. Points are easy to adjust. When you buy them, you can look at them and adjust the contacts so they are parallel, right there on the bench before you install them. Don't be afraid of them, they are pretty simple- Kettering figured them out over 100 years ago! I've had points ignition systems go 30k miles before a tuneup. Again, setting them does not require a dwell meter. You can set them using a vacuum gauge, since a good idle depends on proper coil current saturation...which requires proper point dwell. If you want the ultimate in reliability, try one of the points replacement technologies, but keep the points and condenser in the trunk when that "technology" breaks down. You'll get home with $12 worth of parts. Most people in the US just want to get in and drive the car to wherever they want to go, and don't want to / can't afford to maintain the car. They don't care about knowing how to fix it, either. That's all well and good, and the manufacturers have done well fixing the problem. BUT, note that this required development of electronic fuel injection and ignition, and required special training to diagnose and repair. That diagnosis, say in the case of my Chevy Astro van, cost more than if I had just thrown a tuneup at it, even if I did it 6 times in the 120,000 miles I owned it before the $2700 repair, if it had had points ignition. Technology gives and it takes.
If I had known about this meter a couple years ago, I would have been much happier! But then again, I wouldn't have been as happy as I was when I finally found a full tune up kit (timing light, compression guage, vacuum guage, dwell meter) for $15 at an estate sale. I already had everything except the dwell meter, but spares are never a bad thing.
Thank you for all the input and advice gentleman. I still think I'm going electronic. To be honest I'm not even sure if I'm going to keep the 425 after this year. I've been dying to do a 5.3 lm7 swap. They're cheap as dirt and can't make awesome power with FI on a stock block. I understand what you guys are saying but you have to understand I live in NYC. While I'm actually pretty damn good with my hands I don't want to risk getting tickets because I messed something up and so forth.
If you can't change your points now, then swapping motors becomes a whole lot more game... It's pointless.. lol... but hey it's your ride... I'll come pick up the 425 for free.... The electronic one will work, I have one... But as a precaution I still carry a new set of points with me..
Adding to Doc's great tune-up post; I would change the fuel filter and inspect/clean/replace the air filter as necessary. Also carefully inspect the spark plug wires. One old timer taught me a trick that I use - get a spray bottle and fill it with water. Spray the wires with the engine running. If the water causes any change in the way the engine runs, it's time for a new quality set of wires.
I never said I can't change points (I haven't yet) I'd just like to have some things simplified on the car. I've looked up videos and it doesn't seem that bad but this is one area where I'd like to keep it simple. Thanks for the advice about keeping and extra set. Thanks! Hey the 5.3 came in the Rainier
