I converted from a point to pointless system 2 months ago, The car runs much better with the MOD, but it still seems out of tune (Lack of power on hard accel). Today I throw a timing light on it, and my damper mark is at least 3/4" CCW off of the timing tag. My first mistake was thinking #1 cylinder was driver side front ($hevys all my life till now), googled that, mistake corrected. Now I realize that #1 cylinder is passenger front. OK......so I google setting up a distributor on a nailhead..... and I'm getting frustrated, not getting the info i want. Can anyone give me clear simple instructions for getting this distributor set up? EX:When #1 at TDC, #? will be at....., plus any other info I might need! Thanks in advance men! Rob
hook your light to the front pass plug,move your dist when the damper mark lines up with between 5-10 degree on the timing chain coverss thats it the guys will be on board to help more make sure your vacume advanced is off the carb
Make sure the vacuum advance is disconnected and plugged when you set the timing. Sounds like that might have been your issue. Like gsgtx said, you'll want to set the timing between 5 & 10*. My '62 calls for 12*, and that's what I'm running. But I think the later Nails call for 6* or so. Maybe less, I forget. If it starts to ping, just back off the timing a little.
After following the above advice, check to make sure the mechanical advance is working properly by leaving the vacuum advance disconnected and taking RPMs up to 3800-4000. The advance should steadliy climb with RPM which will be evident when using the timing light. A dial-back type light is best for this so you can see exactly how much advance you are getting. If you don't have one at least you can insure it is advancing then returning to normal with engine rpm. Assuming this is your 64 the initial setpoint spec calls for 2.5 degrees. As mentioned you can set it higher as long as you don't start getting detonation (pinging). Since the factory distributor is designed for a 2.5 degree initial setting, every degree you go up from there on the initial will be added to the total mechanical advance. Too much total advance will cause pinging and how soon this happens will depend on the internal engine condition and fuel quality. Your engine will definitely be more responsive with more initial advance assuming other systems are functioning properly. After you insure the mechanical advance is working plug in the vacuum advance and see how much total advance (mechanical and vacuum) you get by taking the rpm back up to 4000. Opinions vary but ideally it should be somewhere between 42 and 50. If you really want to insure your distributor is finely tuned and properly setup so you can safely use a higher initial setpoint, send it to Tom Telesco - Telriv is his name on this forum. There has been a lot of discussion on this topic if you care to do some searching.
I believe the distributor was pulled to install the pointless system. Currently I have the distributor as far clockwise as it will go. This leaves my timing mark at about 10 oclock. Running higher rpms did make the mark move, with or without vacuum advance, but Im still always far off from the timing tag on cover. Any moves counter clockwise bring it further away and the engine runs worse. The light im using is an old sears light, no frills. Thanks for the input, and I'll also do some forum searching Thanks Rob
make sure the plug wires are in the right firing order.you have to get rid of the the resister wire when you run the kind of set up.or you need to put 12volts to the coil and leave the resister wire on
The most important factor to how your engine runs at full throttle is proper total timing. At wide open throttle, there is little to no vacuum in the intake manifold. That means NO VACUUM ADVANCE at wide open throttle. That leaves you with initial timing plus whatever mechanical advance you have. I wrote this timing thread because of all the confusion about timing: http://www.v8buick.com/showthread.php?t=63475 Despite the size of this thread, and the many views, I still see the same questions from guys. They focus on the initial timing specs. The only time your engine runs at initial timing is when you are sitting at idle. Step on the gas, and the timing changes. That is why setting and checking initial timing pretty much tells you NOTHING. You need to set your total advance with the vacuum advance disconnected. The initial timing will then be what it HAS to be for that amount of total advance, AND the particular distributor that is installed in the engine. That distributor MAY OR MAY NOT BE the distributor your engine left the factory with. In 40+ years, how likely is it that you have the original distributor? If it is the correct distributor, you can use the original initial timing specs. If not, you need to set the total timing, then check to see where your initial timing ends up. Any of the Nailhead engines that were timed at 2 1/2* initial timing, were meant to run with their vacuum advance hooked to MANIFOLD vacuum. That means the engine will actually run at about 18* BTDC at idle because the vacuum advance will be in at idle. IF you use a conventional timing light, you will need to make a 30* mark on your balancer, or use a timing tape. see my POWER TIMING thread.
If you cannot move the distributor to adjust the timing because you are running out of travel, it means that the distributor is installed a tooth off. See my post above. Read the power timing thread and set the total timing.
Why won't the distributor turn more clockwise? Is the vacuum advance diaphragm hitting the firewall? If so, and you cannot set the proper timing, the distributor needs to come out and start over. One other question: Is the harmonic balancer good? If you bring #1 cyl to TDC (I use a soda straw through the spark plug hole to find the exact TDC - it doesn't matter whether the piston is on the compression or the exhaust stroke). With the #1 piston at TDC, the mark on the harmonic balancer should align with 0 degrees on the timing index. If it does not, you need a harmonic balancer.
A good rule of thumb I use when working on any v configured engine is the front cylinder that is farthest forward (one must be as both cylinders share a common crank pin) is #1. Look at your motor from above and you`ll see my point. Sounds like you may be running out of adjustment because something, like the vacuum can, is physically limiting rotation? You can "create" # 1 on any tower of the dizzy cap simply by raising the distributor past the cam gear, rotating the rotor to align with the tower of your choosing while holding the dizzy body, and dropping it back into place. Remember the rotor will spin as it is lowered and indexes into the cam gear and it may take some wiggling to get the dizzy shaft fully seated in the oil pump drive shaft. If the dizzy doesn`t FULLY seat and become flush with the block dont run the motor as you may not be driving the oil pump! Ask me how I know this....ou: Tom Mooney
Hi Tom, You are correct that you can make any tower on the cap #1, but as a former tech. I hated it when someone did that. I would ref. a service manual and would expect the distributor and secondary wiring to match the manual. It isn't the end of the world if it doesn't, but I hate hack work, and would immediately pull the distributor and put it back the way the factory made it. They located things the way that they did for a reason. That reason is usually accessability.
Hi John, I agree. I suspect someone got it wrong and that is the source of his problem. :TU: Tom Mooney
Sorry for the delay in responding to all the posts, between work, wife and the kids, I dont get much play time. Larry, I'm gonna read your thread, you stated it s a long one so I better post now :TU: The distributor feels likes it's hitting a bump stop, vaccum can far off firewall, all wires loose. Again, I'll read Larrys thread. When setting TDC on #1 cylinder, I thought I needed to be at TDC on the compression stroke. From setting up chevys I'd be on TDC compression stroke, with relation to #1 piston at TDC, another piston would be at TDC on exhaust stroke, and my rotor would be pointing to #1 wire on the cap (towards #1 cylinder), otherwise possiblilty of being 180 out, correct? Before pulling the dist, I'd like to set the engine up at #1 TDC compression stroke and see where my rotor is pointing in relation to the cap, or is this just a useless waste of time? A resistor was added when points eliminator installed.
Rob, You are correct, the #1 piston has to be at TDC on the Compression stroke to set static timing. The fact that the engine runs means you are relatively close to where you need to be. I would turn the engine to TDC. Then take a peak under the cap. The Nailhead firing order is 1-2-7-8-4-5-6-3. The rotor should be in the vicinity of #1 tower on the cap if you are on the compression stroke for #1. If it is pointing closer to the #4 tower, you are on the #1 exhaust stroke, rotate the crank 360*. See where the rotor tip is pointing. Unbolt the hold down, and lift the distributor just enough to free the gear, then turn the rotor in the direction of the #1 tower. See if you can get everything to mesh, and the rotor tip pointing towards the #1 tower of the cap. Make sure the distributor is as close to the center of it's travel, so that you have equal advance and retard travel. I'm not as familiar with the Nailhead as I am the 67-81 V8's. Someone should be able to tell you which way the vacuum advance should be pointing when the distributor is set up correctly. Make sure the distributor seats all the way so that you engage the oil pump drive. Good luck.
What you want to be sure of is the basics.... bring the engine up to no 1 on the compression stroke... then install a positive piston stop and rotate the engine BY HAND untill it comes up against the stop...mark it on the harmonic balancer,,,,,then rotate the engine back the other way, and when it stops, mark it on the balancer.... then mark the balancer half way between the primary marks... that is actual top dead center... mark it perminatly.... then set the dist. to no 1 plug tower , at top dead center on the crank,,, then set the timing with the vac advance unhooked.... at any point between 2 and 12 deg.... then with the timing light hooked up , check the mechanical advance to see it it works... and next check the vacume advance to see if it works.... if all checks out , the timing is set.... With the timing set , if the engine still does not perform, you have some other problem......
I have alot of info to go with now. My plans are to play with this Saturday morning and get this straightened out. I'll update on my progress, and if she can start laying rubber, I'll post a Vid :grin: Thanks for everyones input :beers2: -Rob
Irene screwed me this weekend There should be a smiley after a post like that, but with Hurricane Irene bearing down on LI NY, It'll be rain and wind all weekend. No room in the garage to work on the car so it'll be a Popcorn n Movies weekend. -Rob
hopefully no damage to your garage.. we got hit pretty hard with wind here in mass.. took down a ton of trees... good luck with that dist install need any help just give a shoot paul 66larkgs turbo nailhead
