Hey guys, I think I already know the answer, but I was hoping maybe there are some tricks up yer sleeves. There was a lot of water vapor coming out of the breather on the valve cover and I had some coolant leaking form the intake manifold near the distributor, so I figured it was leaking internally into the camshaft area. I took off the intake manifold and replaced the gaskets and reassembled everything. The car now has an excessive amount of water vapor coming from the left side exhaust pipe and the breather is still puking water vapor. After the car heated up and was idling, I saw water leaking from the right side of the timing cover, near the oil pressure sending unit. i'm not sure exactly why it is coming from there considering the water pump is two inches further to the front of this location. I am afraid the block may be cracked in several places, due to the water vapor from the valve covers and exhaust. What do you guys think? I am open to any possibilities. By the way, the car had overheated (230 degrees) two summers ago but this problem has just now arisen.
HI I'd say check the head gaskets... Look in the raidator for bubbles while the motor is running. if present its a good sign head gasket, but it would super over heat as well.. Did you change the oil when you changed intake gaskets? could be excess water inside the motor form the intake. water pump could fling water everywhere. Just some suggestions Tim
I once had the oil pump pumping oil into the cooling system on my GSX. That was nice! Must have had 4 quarts of chocolate moose in the radiator. Talk about your unexplained oil consumption over a period of a few months. Best of luck with your trouble.
Could be an intake, head or timing cover gaskets leaking internally. Is there coolant in the oil? Have you pulled spark plugs to look for signs of 'steamcleaning' on the electrodes? Lots of bubbles in radiator? The water level goes down how rapidly? Is the engine really clean externally to be ABLE to check for EXACT locations of leaks? Might just be as simple as a BAD gasket (intake, head, or timing cover). Or you might have some cracks. If you do start checking for cracks, I start with pulling the heads and having a machine shop PRESSURE TEST them. If there is going to be cracks anywhere from overheating, the heads are the MOST LIKELY culprit. The block would be the last resort, to check for leaks like this. I suspect a failing gasket, as 230* is NOT that hot! (Then again, I've heard of cracks occurring for no logical reason.) Best of luck, hope you can at least locate the problem!:beer
heres what I found out so far... -no bubbles in the radiator -engine oil was chocolate mousse, but changed it just a few minutes ago. -still have vapor coming out of the valve cover (water, not oil) -drove the car around a bit and exhaust cleared up visually, but I put my hand near the tailpipe, it still gets damp pretty quick. Since I didnt have bubbles in the radiator, can it still be the head gasket? The oil has never been contaminated with water until I changed the intake gaskets. But I already changed the oil. Is it possible for water to get into the cylinder without contaminating the oil? I will pull the plugs tommorrow and find out which cylinder is the culprit. More to follow. P.S. 230 not hot? I was freaking out when I saw it. :shock:
Did it get hot because it was low on water? Or for some other reason maybe? Not saying that 230* is a GOOD thing, but under 'normal circumstances' (system under pressure with a good rad cap and no air pockets) the coolant should not be boiling over at least. Depending on the driving conditions at that time, the 230* temperature may fall within 'acceptable limits' (at the UPPER end, for sure!). You may wish to pull the intake back off. Check for any signs of water leakage on the gasket itself. Was it a new metal 'bathtub ' style? What type of sealant did you use one it? RTV Silicone, Form-a-gasket, Hi-Tac? Any signs of the water being pulled into the intake ports in the heads? Any obvious cracks? Put a straight edge on all of the sealing surfaces using the X- method and check for warping with a feeler guage. Both heads and both sides of the intake. Just throwing some suggestions out for you. Good luck, it may take awhile and some patience, but we'll (V8Buick) figure this out! Really curious to hear how the plugs look..............?
Brian, How does your intake fit? Have the heads been resurfaced, or block decked without surfacing the intake? With the metal gasket, you need a bead of RTV around the coolant passages in the corners of the intake(both sides of metal gasket), and high tack around the intake ports. It is also possible for the timing cover to be cracked or damaged(behind the pump) from a bad water pump, and leak water into the crankcase directly. If you suspect a head gasket, do a compression check. Water in the oil can do alot of damage to your bearings, gotta find out what's going on. Pressure check the cooling system also.
more info Heres what I know now. One leak is coming from the mating surfaces between the block and the front timing cover on the right side. I will have to pull the front end off to fix that. The other is still a mystery to me. I pulled all of the plugs out on the left side and they all looked the same. A light brown color. MAybe the head or gasket is shot and is leaking coolant into the exhaust but not the cylinder? This is my daily driver and I cant really afford to have the car incapacitated for a long period of time. I am open for suggestions! BTW, the intake was resealed with high temp, oil resistant RTV around the intake passages and the water passages. This is an Edelbrock aluminum intake and had it for over 6 years now. I dont feel it is the problem anymore. HELP!!!:rant:
Hi Brian, Let take this ONE step at a time. The timing cover leaks externally, right? If that's the case, then some coolant is probably getting into the crankcase, explaining the 'chocolate moose' oil and the water vapor out of the breathers. Let's get you ready to re-seal the timing cover! Ever done this before?o No:
Just a quick note todays fuels have a lot of water in them just look at alot of the cars when there driving around and you'll see water dripping out the pipe if not running out.. But you could steal be getting water from the timming cover.. just my .02 Tim
Tim, That is water from the catalytic converter, not the fuel. The catalyst converts Hydrocarbons into carbon dioxide and water. I think Brian has a leak somewhere, we just have to figure out where.
Sounding like a combination of intake manifold gasket and timing cover gasket seal problems, since you timing cover is an obvious external leak you'll need to pull the timing cover and install a new gasket and reseal it, this is a real PITA to do properly as you need just enough sealant to achieve a good seal but not so much as to end up with residual in oil and coolant passages. I'd also pull the intake manifold and use composite intake gaskets( I like the silicone beaded ones from Poston/PAE) instead of the factory sheet metal combination valley pan/gasket set up. Most of the vendors have either a drop in valley pan or a permant valley pan that attaches to the bottom of the intake manifold.
I actually had to do the intake gasket job twice because I was in a hurry...we all know what that can do. SO of course I ended up doing the job twice! I have pulled apart the timing cover before, just not while it was in the car. The only nightmare I am having is getting the balancer off of the crank. I dont know if any puller will fit in there without having to remove the radiator. Maybe I will get lucky like my last 455 and pull it off by hand?:Brow: I was also suspecting coolant getting into the crankcase from the timing cover leak. Let me get that fixed tommorrow and see what else I have to tear apart. I cant believe all this crap happened at once. Oh and one more thing, I used gaskets from TA performance for the intake, not the crappy sheetmetal one. And yes I retained part of it for the valley pan. I totally appreciate all the ideas you guys have. Just take some time and effort to get it done! On another note, do you guys know where I can get a aluminum rim repaired? I hit a crater here in chicago and bent the edge of it bad.
I've never found a puller that would pull the balancer all the way off with the radiator still installed. Just pull the radiator out FIRST! No sense having it in the way anyways + its too easy to wack it, then that needs to be fixed also.ou:
Well, I spent almost all of Saturday repairing the timing cover leak...sucessfully. Now the car is back the way it usually is, with the vapor coming out of the valve cover and really wet exhaust. I dont know what to do except replace the doggone engine. I appreciate all the help you guys gave me the past few days.:beer
I get quite a bit of moisture out of my exhaust system when its running on my 70 and I never have to add coolant. Getting water out of your exhaust is normal and a natural part of clean combustion. (good ol chemistry class) it just depends on how much turns back to H2O. EDIT: also ... your using reformulated gas too. it really does a number on the amnt of moisture in the fuel. ethanol holds onto water (simmilar to how model air plane fuel and car batterys go bad leaving them on the concrete floor (soak moisture up thru the concrete and thru plastic.) (there could be extra moisture in the tank of your fave. gas station. try to get your gas from a diffrent company/station) the winter blends are on their way out of the midwest too so you'll see less moisture coming out of the fuel. (winter blend has more ethanol added) just other things to keep in mind while your pulling your hair out trying to figure out this problem. Nate
I can understand that, but when I start the car, it leaves puddles under the exhaust tips...plus the excessive vapor from the valve cover. Still dont think its getting into the cylinders and the oil isnt comtaminated. I have no clue anymore.o No:
I hate seeing people get frustrated and just "give up".... Lets approach this with a system of elimination and see what you end up with first... Water is not that unusual to see puddle up under the exhaust tips of any car, but it's more likely to be found with a catalytic converter equiped system. If you were leaking it into the cylinders you would have anti-freeze smelling fog coming out the back end. If all you are getting is water and no green stuff at the tail pipes then lets assume your not just leaking stuff into an exhaust port and out the pipes.. Is the oil still looking ok? I'd say at this point you have a LOT of moisture trapped inside the engine. Changing the oil will help some but you are gonna' have to give this stuff a chance to evaporate out (hence the fog from the valve covers). Having a functional PCV system will help facilitate this. BTW does your valve cover fog smell like coolant??? are you sure it's not just normal "fumes"? Next, are you loosing coolant??? How about going to Autozone and borrowing a coolant system pressure tester??? Give this stuff a look over and let us know what you find.
dosent' autozone have testers to see if water is in the oil, even small amnts of it? i rember seeing this somewhere. EDITED (your supposed to have water in the coolant) not oil... Nate
