Well, I'm glad you did the right thing not drilling out the rivets and keeping that VIN factory mounted to the wrong car's dash, Jason.... I'm pretty sure we just made some heads explode with the conundrum
Lucas you should have to keep your dash pad absolutely pristine so you don't have to go down "that" road .
Yup, 72 Mach 1, code 05. BTW Lucas, there's at least one other body location where the VIN is factory stamped.
Partial vin on fender apron area near shock towers if I remember correctly. Dash and door tag are only complete vin locations. I think a partial vin is on the trans and engine also. Haven't worked on an old Ford in many many years
Last question. I didn’t even watch the video attached to the link. How did Kansas authorities even find out the vin had been removed? Did owner himself question the car and that’s how this all unfolded ? Reason being I don’t live to far from where that car came from if it really was IL. I wouldn’t buy bubble gum down there with out looking at the expiration. Not trying to offend the IL members. Being about an hour from the city of Chicago, I haven’t had one request issue or any sort of problem with registering any of my classic cars. As long as I have a clear title, bill of sale away I go to the dmv. The only time I’ve ever encountered someone wanting pictures of my vin was through insurance and appraisal. I have looked at some questionable cars I had initial interest but walked if I didn’t feel right with the car did my research and stayed away. What I guess I’m asking is that mandatory in that state you provide a picture of the vin to get a title/Registration?
When I brought my ‘68 GS into Georgia, I tried to register it the tag office ran the VIN and it wasn’t in the computer, so they sent an officer to inspect it. He looked at the VIN, chatted a bit and signed the form. The Corvette owner in this thread probably encountered a similar situation but his VIN tag had the wrong rivits. Thus his saga began… Patrick
I believe you're correct on that John. I recall seeing a partial VIN stamped on the rear pass side block, and the toploader transmission of my long gone 429 SCJ Mach 1. I think Ford put the entire VIN near the body location you mentioned.
Duly noted! Perhaps I should been less specific and said ‘fasteners’ instead of ‘rivits’. Or spelled it rivets.
My '63 Jeep pickup has Phillips screws holding the VIN plate. The DMV inspector was surprised, but I think he realized that if someone was to tamper with a VIN tag, no one in his right mind would use such fasteners. The same vehicle has the VIN serial number stamped on the frame. A drunk monkey with a hammer and individual number punches would have done a better job.
Years ago I took the VIN plate off my Buick (spot-welded). I may not do so today. It's going back on with rosette rivets and I'm not worried about that. There's no other VIN on the car- only thing on one rear rail was 'Parrish Pressed Steel', the date the frame was made and a number that wasn't close to the VIN sequence (100% the car was not re-framed). Irrelevant now since the car has been back-halved and that section is long gone.
FYI, those are not the "correct" screws for your vett. my unmolested, untouched survivor 59 vett has torx head screws. plus had the super rare rpo 427/435 horse motor! btw LOVE THAT GRILL!!!!!!!!
While there is happy dances going on over how other manufacture's attached tags, and how GM did it long ago, I would like to bring you back to the question of re-body on our beloved Buicks. And for all of you that say it's no biggie (including those that say that and yet buy all original cars) I've got an Eeeeezeeee hypothetical for you. You've been around these GS's forever. A 1970 GS Stage 1 comes up for sale. You see the ad. It's advertised as all numbers match (not only engine and trans, but carb, OO rear, distributor - the whole juicy shootin' match). An old friend who has long admired your GS, decides he wants one and coincidently sees this particular '70 Stage car advertised. He's never had a GS or a musclecar for that matter. He's the type that without guidance may buy "the wrong car", but he thinks that this '70 Stage 1 is priced very well. He calls you and tells you he's interested. You say yeah, I know the car... You know the car alright. It was Jakes in the early 80's. Jake spun the car 180 and the back of the car hit the front of a disabled truck on the side of the road. Nobody was hurt, but the "H" around the trunk and both quarters were caved in and kinked. The back window shattered. The car sat for years in Jakes backyard and it took a real toll-big time rust in that area that was allowed to soak. In 1999 Johnny bought it from Jake, found the frame was still good, and did a re-body. Johnny obtained a cherry '70 Skylark body (it was even Coronet Gold too), levitated the VIN & trim, installed all new Legendary interior after his Uncle laid a slick base coat, clear coat paint job on. All the stainless was polished, and everything was rechromed. Johnny sold it to Kevin who sold it to Bob, who now has it for sale. Bob doesn't know jack about the car's history but got it "right" and want's to sell quickly. The car still looks beautiful! Polyglass and all! Clean and clear title in hand and just 40k! Fast forward to the phone conversation... Do you tell your old friend about the re-body? It doesn't matter right? Furthermore, you've lived the hobby's hard knocks and your buddy should too, right? Buyer beware right? So you just agree with your buddy that the car is a good deal and hang up, right? Wait, what. Sure you do. Think about it - why did you tell him it was a re-body?
You couldn’t have stated it better!! Because I know at one time I was the old friend. Hell the first thing I do when I see a buick I’m interested in is talk to the 68/69 er’s. I’ll never know it all. So I hopefully get some good guidance from the experienced and knowledgeable people with in the group.
Even if the car was in a wreck and didn't get rebodied or a frame replacement, I tell him the car was in a wreck if I know about it.
answer i told him its a re body and lend him my opinion to give him some advice and what my opinions are on the matter. i also tell him to do a lot of internet searching on some car forums to see what people are saying about the subject. he needs to be educated! then he can make his own decision. to me the car IS repaired "correctly" if doner shell was purchased legally. said "re body" car should not be same price as equivalent car that was not ever in a accident. said "re body" car should carry same or MORE value as another equivalent car if it was a resto that had repo fenders, door skins, quarters, floors, trunk {jmo}. yes i am one of those guys that had/have many real, no question, rare muscle cars over the years. 99% of the time i just pay the piper just to save people throwing shade down the rode when its time to sell. i am lucky/foolish enough to have extra money to waste on these silly cars. we have to remember not everyone does have that extra money for no question cars. in the end friend or not we LIVE in the real world, and the real world IS buyer beware. knowing this a buyer that gets cheated should take his lumps and learn from it. there is a special forum for every single muscle car made. any rare top tier car can be put under a microscope within minutes from guys on these different sites that can tell you how to verify car. and god protect the seller that post pics of fake car to sell as these experts { there like sharks in a feeding frenzy lol} will tear it to shreds instantly. hell there are guys that track these questionable cars for heavens sake.
I tell the old friend (or forum member who I don't know personally) what I know about the car and let him make an informed decision. In your scenario, it's been discounted appropriately for whatever reason so my old friend isn't going to lose his butt on it. I go back to my argument that it depends how far the Skylark was stripped down? All those individual pieces of that shell have a part # and were available at the parts counter except 2 or could've been pulled out of the bin in any order on the Fisher Body line (the bodies weren't even built by Buick) when the car was originally assembled. Maybe it was even a Flint built bucket seat Skylark & w/A/C & w/ or w/o a Vinly top - In other words, how much trouble did Johnny go through to find the most correct body? Fortunately we have more options in that regard than do I think the Chevy or Mopar guys - Decent Skylarks are still out there for reasonable $. Hopefully Johnny found the perfect Skylark but regardless it's got the original tags from the Stage 1, (again, the only 2 parts not available at the parts counter) and even the orig. (albeit repaired) BBB only frame, matching #'s engine, correct carb/distributor, and rust-free GM sheetmetal & spot welds. I'd take that over a shell that's been completely rebuilt w/Xhineze sheetmetal except for those two pieces that those unique tags attach to and as pointed out earlier, even those pieces are available repro. I could practically if not completely piece together an entire repro Buick shell. It'd be beautiful. Lmk how many ppl want one and maybe I'll set up to do it but personally I'll take Jake's old car with the sweet orig. body optioned perfectly that Johnny hopefully scoured the country for.
Reading this reply through, I believe it to be well thought out, and communicated. I think all would agree that I am not taking Charlie's sentences out of context in the rest of my reply. Yes, Johnny obtained the body legally, lol. It was a Flint, bench seat, air, vinyl top car just like the original Stage was, lol. So here's the meat n taters...the car was damaged so badly that it should have somehow become a matter of record. Consequently, as you said, worth less than a comparable car that had never been badly wrecked and subsequently left to rot. It wasn't just a restoration, it was a rebuild, and consequently should have a rebuilt title letting everyone, including your friend, know what you knew about this particular car. In this case that a significant welded sheetmetal assembly (body, shell, tub) was utilized. A rebuilt title would be that Scarlett Letter.
Is a car with 2 new 1/4s, tail panels, trunk floor, and decklid replaced due to rot/rust different than a car repaired the same due to an accident ??? Both are totaled. To say one is a rebuild and one is a restoration is somewhat comical.
