<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comNeed some help/advice/opinions. <o></o></SPAN> <o></o> So has anyone recently upgraded the front sway bar, added a rear swaybar for the first time and had a rebuild on a posi unit? What have you noticed about driving the car? If you have or haven’t please take a minute to think about the above statements and how a cars handling may have changed…..ok read on J.<o></o> <o></o> <o></o> I am currently trying to resolve what seems like an alignment (toe-in) issue except all measurements on alignment (toe-in, caster, camber) are according to the book. Tie rods, ball joints etc new and/or are tight……so assume all is correct there <o></o> <o></o> For this car, I was just wondering what the effects of a thicker front swaybar, added rear sway bar, and recently tightened positrac unit and 225/70/15 tires. (Tires could be a factor here since there is plenty of side wall.<o></o> <o></o> Issue: Driving down a straight road, the front end of the car moves back and forth as if a gust of wind has blown.... <o></o> <o> </o> Observations:<o></o> <o> </o> 1.) Does not do it every time I drive down the road and when it does occur it does not do it the whole stretch of the road. <o></o> <o> </o> 2.) Traveling at the same speed on the same road does not consistently produce this issue.<o></o> <o></o> 3.) Making hard turns does not always produce the issue.<o></o> <o></o> 4.) Hard acceleration does not always produce this issue.<o></o> <o> </o> 5.) Varying dips and bumps do not always produce this issue.<o></o> <o> </o> <o> </o> My theory is that the positrac combined with new tires causes the front end of the car to move back and forth as if a gust of wind has blown. I think that the posi unit is binding a little and releasing abruptly because the additive hasn’t work itself in. The effects of the release are amplified by the stiffer swaybars keeping the car flat and the fair amount of sidewall on the tires.<o></o> <o> </o> So, am I off base here? What do you guys think? <o></o> <o> </o> I may remove the rear swaybar and see if there is a difference (if any difference).<o></o> <o> </o> Thanks<o></o> </o>
I would return to your baseline set-up first. Then add one variable back at a time and test it carefully in a controlled setting. Have you considered a steering issue yet? Something binding or loose or worn?
X1...you didn't say whether problem there before mods, but assume not...mods possibly exacerbated existing issue like loose steering box. Gut feeling is tires... Only change I saw w/swaybar addition/upgrade (both cars) other than increased roll resistance in turn was slightly harsher ride on uneven roads.
The most common diagnosis for your problem is a worn centerlink. Incorrect alignment values could also contribute to it. A have a couple of questions- Did you align the car yourself or have a shop do it? If a shop did it, did they provide you with the before and after specs? Who checked the front end? You or the shop? If the shop did it, re-check it yourself. I dont know what experience you have with front ends, so pardon the dumb question- Do you know how to properly check the steering and suspension components? Unloading the ball joints to check for play, etc?
I see its a 70 Riviera. That adds another componemt to the mix. Check the brake reaction rod/ strut rod bushings. I betcha anything they're shot. They will certainly give you a wierd driving experience and do exactly what your describing.
Sorry, this is the '70 <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1:State w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Riviera</st1lace></st1:State>….<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com <o></o> Lots of good stuff <o></o> <o> </o> “Check the brake reaction rod/ strut rod bushings.”<o></o> <o> </o> These are new, this effect is not like when these things were worn, especially the reaction rods bushings. Will triple check these again. I’ve had 1<SUP>st</SUP> hand experience when these have gone bad, but will quadruple check. J.<o></o> <o> </o> “I would return to your baseline set-up first.”<o></o> <o> </o> Yeah....unfortunately there are way too many variables that have changed when I did the car rebuild. So, I wanted to get some opinions of the rear swaybar. ...trying to logically eliminate variables since I've spent so much time on the front end checking alignment specs. So I am trying to take a mental break and focus on other possibilities.<o></o> <o></o> Last time I had the rearend worked on (without rear sway bar), the rearend would bind a little (this is my description of the effect). In this car I have had an open differential and the posi unit, so comparison was easy. J There was a perceivable amount of difference, you could feel the car stiffen in the rear as the posi unit reached its clutch force limit. If you drive slowly turning tightly enough (before the car rebuild) you could “feel” the rear end ease back down. Initially, the posi unit would pop as the clutches released and you could definitely feel the rear end settle, as time when on the popping subsided and the rear tended to ease down smoothly.<o></o> <o></o> It will be a lot of effort to start reversing...but it is do-able.<o></o> <o></o> As far as the front end alignment, I've checked and triple checked, using a Caster/Camber/King Pin inclination gauge. Also measured toe in with tool that mounts on the wheels, also verified by using marks on tires…but anything is possible and I am not ruling this out or any front end components…just gather’n you guy’s recommendations <o></o> <o></o> Everything was touched and replaced. <o></o> <o></o> Ball joints - all new.<o></o> Tie Rods - not new, but feel tight.<o></o> Pump - rebuilt<o></o> Gearbox - rebuilt<o></o> Tires - new<o></o> Swaybars - all new<o></o> Shocks - not new, but dampen properly.<o></o> Spindles – are not from this car…from 81 caddy.<o></o> <o> </o> <o> </o> With all this said, I think I should get a few more miles on the car, if problem persists, start by removing the rear sway bar, If this doesn’t work, I think I will re-install the original brake drum spindle and assemblies, reset the alignment. Just think’n out loud… <o></o>
Don't know your driving style...but... Try driving the same stretch of road while lining the car up as best you can and then don't do any correction (or as little as possible) with the steering wheel as far as you can go. Repeat with correction for road conditions. Does this make a difference (or sense)? Some radial tires will set you up for what feels like oversteer if you correct a lot. I have a set on my commuter car. Michelin Primacy tires. They follow the rain grooves that are ground in the freeway here pretty much like the big Honda motorcycles did with the ribbed front tires. If the grooves wander around, so does the car. It's very annoying. Another approach (different tires, they were on my Skylark) is to try upping the pressure within the safe limits until the sloppiness goes away.
Believe it or not the steering "play" is pretty much zero, I don't really need to gently correct if at all. I had a buddy of mine (owns a 68 lark and 87 GN) take a ride with me he was puzzled. I don't have to touch the wheel to ilicit this response. Again sometimes the car feels confident. Infact, I can steer abruptly left and right then straighten out with out issue .... I've been driving down the same street several times to control variables and eliminate cause. Yesterday, I pulled the front brake/drum spindles....will still drive a few miles so see what happens. Then begin part removal/swaps....just a lotta work to do...ou:
Just trying to help..were the swaybar bushings tightened with the weight of the car on them?If not the bushings will be preloaded,that could make a car feel weird.The same goes for the A arm bushings if they were replaced.Good luck.
upper right ball joint - loose. I had swapped the press fitted OEM for the OEM 81 caddy bolt in.... will be welding them in to prevent them from working loose. 27miles and counting :Brow:
Rear sway bar should have zero impact on straight line, flat road performance. You shouldn't even be able to tell it is there until you make a sudden slalom maneuver.
As far as the posi binding..... find a parking lot where you can safely practice the following manouvre.... drive the car slowly backwards making tight circles, first one way, then the other. Do the same in forward, repeat several times. If necessary add another bottle of additive and repeat the process.
I had to match drill the ball joints' mounting flanges since the originals are press fit. At the time I made the decision, I was looking to replace one press fitted but had absolutely no luck finding them other than a custom ball joint maker who wanted $$$s. The 81's have a four bolt flange, are readily available and I thought would be easy. The bolts are tight, but the whole ball joint mounting flange shifts maybe 1/16 of an inch when you aggressively pushed the car side to side. I can't say that the ball joint itself is loose or bad in the traditional sense, but it is new and should not be bad. Once I weld these guys into place, I'll re-check alignment and drive the car around.
Im not sure I agree with your installation. I hope for your sake the taper is identical between the two Egge Machine has the correct upper ball joints for your Riv for 108.55 each. They OE TRW number is 10156. The extra cost is worth the piece of mind for me.
Jason I agree with you about tapers. The first thing I did was measure and crossed referenced tappers since the spindles were swapped. Turns out the taper angles are the same (it was just a matter of depth for proper install). The lower holes on the '81 spindle needed more depth for the '70 lower ball joint so that sufficeint thread was provided and the hole for the cotter pin be accessible. The same goes for the tie-rod ends. I had a machine shop do the work. It took less than 15 minutes and $30. The uppers were untouched and not a problem since I used the '81 ball joint; ironically, the '81 uppers are a perfect match for taper to the '70 upper ball joints. Total $s for the whole conversion on one side was far less than $100 for 1 OEM upper. The only modification needed is to the A Arm to mount the joint...and well bolts do not work well enough as I've found out. Got'em welded up, but ran out of time this weekend. Will finish re-installing them in the next week or so.
