Around here (Central IL) E-85 is some .70 cheaper than even 87 oct. regular and close to $1.00 cheaper than Premium! Hey....That's been my exact plan for my Regal :TU: (in my sig below) I've been attempting to get done but going QUITE S-L-O-W due to health. Compression is set-up at 12.3 to 1! Only drawback is lower, yes I said lower MPG! Being a majority-based alcohol fuel you will need to run it quite rich. With straight methonal you are looking at around 2:1 ratio compared to dino-juice. I know this is ethanol we are discussing here but same principles will apply maybe just not as extreme. Just something to think about. Also the entire fuel system and lines need to be addressed. Here's a link to a company I've found that makes a "sealer" that will coat the entire system prior to alcohol useage. It's a great reference for E-85 conversion for those interested.... http://xcelplus.com/e85/e85informationcenter.htm Just thought I'd share, hope this helps....
I'd have to vote for the Head shootout and or a 91 octane street motor and Hi-Po buildup. BTW, as a project why don't you build a blown (centrifugal supercharger) Buick 350. Turns out the block is stronger than the 455. One guy here had one built that topped 800 hp and 800 ftlb of torque...on PUMP GAS!!! Thanks for the interst...and the article on David D's Buick. It was a great article. :TU:
Douglas thanks for your interest in the 455 Buicks. :TU: I think we have all been waiting for an article such as this. I pretty much agree with the idea of a comparison of the after market aluminum heads out there. I would also like to see some reworked stock cast iron heads thrown into the mix. Bob H. :beer
Yes, that is exactly what I would like to see. Test it with the low compression, then bump it up a little keeping it in the pump gas range, and then crank it up and run race gas. I don't really care about the stock heads, you could use them for a base line. If you do a full port job with bigger valves they will flow ok and make good dyno numbers. What I would really be interested in seeing is a direct comparison between E-Brock, Bulldog, and TA heads. I would like to see each of these heads on the same block with the same cam and see who's heads have the right stuff. I also want to know how much each build costs including valve train parts.
Douglas, I like the idea of street, street/strip, and race only. For the street version, I see no problem whatsoever in going with ~8.5:1 compression ratio. This isnt a huge deal with the Buicks, and with gas priced as it is, it should run on 87 octane. The cam will probably be around .460 to .480 lift in/ex (although not necessarily equal) and somewhere in the 225/235 in/ex @ .050 duration. You wont have to do additional headwork to deal with the increased cam lift and coil spring bind issues. I would also prefer to see standard valve heads (iron) with some work over Stage 1 heads. You could do a comparison between the two with similar amounts of money spent. By this I mean $1000 worth of work to standard valve heads vs. $1000 worth of modifying irons to Stage 1 and doing what you can with the leftover money. This would be a great real-world comparison for the guy who may be wondering if he should open up his original small valve heads to Stage 1 specs, or just put the money into machine work. Then you could finish it by using a set of aluminum heads w/o any work done to them fresh out of the box. Also do a comparison of a stock iron intake vs. the Edelbrock Performer vs. the new (or old) version of the B4B (stick with the dual plane intakes). And lastly, do the exhaust manifold/header comparison. The focus for this motor is finding where the value is for a motor that likely wont see 5500 rpm, be bolted up in anything from a restored GS to a Riviera to an Electra. I see a well-built QJ sitting on the top. For the street/strip version, you can bump the compression up closer to 10.0:1. It should still run on pump gas, needing no more than 92 octane fuel. You shouldnt have to wonder if it needs more. In this case, youll be comparing good iron Stage 1 heads to the different choices of aluminum heads based on the Stage 1 valve. You may also want to throw on a set of Stage 2 aluminum heads for comparison. Youll be modifying the aluminum heads to get the best match between their flow and the motors power band, while also keeping it streetable. The cam will have bit over .500 lift in/ex and duration will be in the 235-245/245-250 @ .050 range. Theres no reason that it shouldnt pull enough vacuum to run the power brakes. Somewhere are 13 inches +/- should be expected, if not better. The bottom end should be built to be capable of turning 6500 rpm, but would never need to. In fact this motor and the street motor could share the same balanced rotating assembly. The difference could be in the deck height. Or, you could have a couple of sets of rods/pistons. You could use the .038 over Wiseco pistons. The Wiseco reverse dome pistons could be used in the street motor, while their flat tops could be used in the street/strip motor. If youre lucky, you wont have to do much cutting to the block to work with them, and the heads, for the correct compression range. If youre not, well read about it in the pages of CC, of course. Intake choices would be between what worked best on the street motor and the TA Performance SP1. You could throw on an old Offenhouser for good measure. A well-built Qjet can be compared to a Holley HP series carb. Headers would pretty much be expected at this level. For the race version you would go all out cubes, compression, and huge heads. Im sure the guys who are running these motors can get more into the specifics, since this is something I havent had to think about. I think an important angle is to show both the strengths and weaknesses of the Buick motor. Discussion of the high nickel content blocks, and what that means would be good. Along with that, discussion of the poor oiling system and what modifications are necessary or recommended for long life would be valuable. Some history of the motor would make a good sidebar. Include mention of the early Stage packages that were available over the counter prior to the introduction of the 69 GS 400 Stage 1 retail package. A little Kenne-Bell history, along with where are they now could be interesting. The 4-bolt main block would also be something worth mentioning, along with the future of the motor from TAs and Bulldogs plans for blocks. Of course, before you do all of this, Ill want to buy up as many 455 cores as possible. Theyll be worth their weight in gold after the article! Also Douglas, I thought you needed an avatar, so I made one for you, taken from the photo in your latest editorial. As a Washington native, and Bellevue resident, I thought it was the least I could do for you
Yes! Low budget bang for the buck to start with. The '70 heads should bump the compression a bit. Then take the best combo from this level and go into the bottom end. The usual stuff here too. Balancing, inexpensive forged pistons, oiling mods ect. Change the cam if neccessary to take advantage of higher compression. See what that does then swap carbs and intakes and get as much as you can out of this basic combo while still keeping it streetable. Finally go all out with the best bolt on parts you can buy. Make it a race only motor with off the shelf parts. See who makes the best stuff "out of the box" while also showing what needs to be done to the bottom end to support the power. I realize that to a lot of people on this board, professional and home builders alike, this may be "been there done that" but there are many more that can still benefit from this. Some still get there info from national mags and aren't big on the internet (I found this site through a mention in CarCraft) and others may be new to Buicks or will be converted after reading this build up. I for one am very excited about the exposure it will bring to Buick power and if it keeps just one dope, uh I mean person from yanking the buick mill for a chevy it will be worth it. :TU: BTW, I think Jim W's ethenol build up must be done if not in this story then in another but it needs to be done and it would be nice to see it done with a buick. Thanks Douglas!
connecting rods..... So guys, Do we run reconditioned factory rods (with every dirty trick in the book to keep them alive) and run um till they blow (approx 650 HP give or take??), or TA's sportsmans rods, or some form of small journal Eagle rods???? Which ones, and why?..... :grin:
Man thats a lot of tests. :TU: Any one ready for a Carcraft the size of a LA phone book? Or maybe a continued Buick atricle about 12 issues long :laugh: Bob H
Build it slow Many of the current magazines have built engines that started as stock and over time, sometimes a long time, wound up with a blown, nitroused mill that had every trick in the book. Do the same with the Buick. Make it a series of articles and start at the bottom, so to speak, and work your way up. Some low cost mods that increase reliability and bolt ons, then move on to improving the short block and up the line. With a little planning, you could run this over a year or so and keep us enthralled at the prospect of the next issue.
I second Cheep Buick.. Im a low guy on the totem poll when it comes to builds so showing me a full out 455 wont interest me as much as seeing what I can gain with some bolt ons and mods. It is more in the ball park for most of us that can barely afford a bolt on let alone a full bore 455. It would make for good reads and will educate many on what the Buick 455 is all about.
455 Buildup I think that I would vote for the three different combinations, Street,Street/Strip, Full on race, if CC's budget will allow. Douglas, please check your "Private Messages" as I sent one last week and have had no response as of yet. I will be gone from Tuesday evening until Sunday for the GSCA Nationals. Thanks, Steve Reynolds SRE Performance Fabrications INC 920-684-6776
I agree. If you have a decent running engine to start with I think that doing an as-is dyno, then bolting on a set of good heads along wit ha cursory inspection of the stock short-block would be a great way to test the theory that jumping in with a bunch of bolt-ons may not be as effective as spending the money on a set of good heads and using them as a foundation for future improvements. As for E85, I've never seen the stuff in MT. I think it is a great idea, but experimenting with it on a Buick tells us nothing about how to improve a Buick in a more standard engine combo. E85 could just as easily be (and probably more scientifically compared with other engines) tested using a :sleep: :boring: SB Chevy.
I second Jim Weise about the E-85 article -- it would be great to see what advantages/disadvantages such a conversion has on a big-block engine. Not only because of the lower price and the benefits to the environment but because it's exciting and inspiring to do this kind of stuff.
If you are going to do a number of tests, make the first one like you where building the 455 to put it back in the Electra, looking stock. Show what the 455 can put out with stock exhaust / intake and stock carb.
Thats what I said more or less!!! LOL :laugh: I'd love to see some of the various blends being tested. Also, for interest sake, as far as mileage goes you need E-85 to be about 72% or less the price of normal fuel before you start seeing a benefit (ie you burn more to make the same power according to some recent sae tests I saw) so to see how this pans out in our favourite ride would be very interesting indeed. Glad to see you're still out there, Jim! later Tim
The Fuel test would definately be interesting and can be tested in any brand mule engine. I vote for testing various Buick components, like the Bulldog, T/A SE and Eddy head sets, with both 180 & 360 deg intakes. Lets see what works the best for the majority of us backyard mechanics on the working man's budget. Tom
Tim....those tests are comparing the E-85 to regular gasoline...NOT with a race gas of 105-110 octane cost as E-85 is advertised at being rated at. Redo the math comparing "apples-to-apples" on this one and I'm quite sure everyone (hopefully) will then see the benefits that Jim and I are looking toward! You basically get to have your cake and eat it too by having a nice high compression (enhanced torque production, throttle response and efficiency) and a fuel to sustain it without the cost of race fuel. With an 85% alcohol content you will also benefit from a much lower "taxing" of the cooling system to boot.:TU: Hope this sheds a little more (performance) light on our reasons and thoughts.:grin:
For sure, I was just bugging Jim a little bit, never see the guy one here anymore gotta take em while you can!! :laugh: Points made...I think we need to look forward for sure if we want to keep these cars rolling. Looking forward to anything Car Craft does....its just good to see Buicks getting some attention... :beer later Tim
I like the Ethanol idea too... See what a BBB can do on corn oil!! otherwise, I'll just be happy to see the Buick get some positive press :TU:
