Ok, this is really starting to piss me off. Found TDC, proceeded to find the center line... Numbers seemed WAY OFF!!! So tore everything down today and started over. Found TDC, Located .050 lift on the #1 intake lobe (opening) and looked at degree wheel it said 67. Kept going and at .050 lift on #1 intake lobe (closing) and it read 120. Now for the math, 67+120=187 187+180=367 367/2=183.5 183.5-67= 116.5 centerline on a Kenne Bell MK C118. On Dr. Weise's advise it needed to be installed between 112-114. Which way do I rotate the crank gear to bring the cam back (I think) to get to 113??? Im asking cause I f-ed up last night and had to do it all over...AGAIN!!!ou: ou: ou: . I just want to:3gears: :3gears: :3gears: :3gears: again:grin: :Brow:
whoa... 67* for an opening number?... I don't think so.. Look at it this way... with your math, what your finding when you add the open @ .50 number to the close at.050 number, and then add 180, is the @ .050 duration. If memory serves, a 118 is around 228* @ .050 duration on the intake. Here is a 240* cam I degreed the other day.. for example With the TA Rollmaster timing set on the 6* advance setting.. Open at .050 = 14* BTDC Close at .050 = 46* ABDC Do the math... Here is what the numbers mean... 14(14 before TDC), and 46 (46* AFTER BDC).. and then add the 180* that are between top and bottom dead center) That gives you the @.050 duration 14+46+180 = 240... so we have a cam that has 240 degrees of at .050 lift duration. (this is where your coming up with 367..) To move on with the example.. Then you divide by 2.. 240*/ 2 = 120* And subtract the opening number... 120-14 = 106* And that is the intake lobe centerline, expressed in crankshaft degrees. Now, it has been some time since I degreed a 118 lobe center cam, ever since I found out how much mid range power they give up ( have seen 30 ft lbs at some rpm levels on the dyno, especially in the 4000- 4500 rpm range). The widest lobe center I will run is 114* normally, but your numbers there lead me to believe your still not on TDC with the wheel. Take a step back, and quit focusing on the wheel so much to find TDC.. If the heads are on the engine, then just line the timing chain up with whatever advance marks you are using, and set your pointer at 0.. that gets you within 10* normally, and gets you in the ballpark. Then use a piston stop to stop the piston at a particular position, and rotate the wheel in both directions till your and equal distance from TDC. Now if your really frustrated.. pull the LH head off the motor.. single head gaskets are not that expensive.. and then use your dial indicator on the piston top,and rotate the motor till the indicator stops.. now you have found TDC within about a degree.. set your indicator to zero, set the wheel up on the front of the motor and you pointer up to zero on the wheel, and then rotate the engine till the piston drops .050 on either side of TDC.. when your degree wheel reads the same on each side at .050 of piston drop, then you have found true TDC. Then check the cam again, making sure your using the second lifter bore back on the driver side.. that's the number 1 intake lobe. I swear I have to make a video of this.. I had a customer in when I degreed that 240* duration cam, and after going thru it with him, he commented on how easy it actually was to do.. But it can be very frustrating if it won't come out right.. and if you don't take a step back and really look at what is happening with the piston in relation to the valves, you can get lost in a hurry.. JW So we have
Jim thanks... That explanation helps out a lot, now I understand what the numbers are supposed to mean.:TU: :TU: Last question B4 I tackle it again. Which way is advance on the crank gear? Clockwise??? Thanks Michael
If in fact you had to "skip a tooth" on the timing chain to make it come in right, then yes, you would turn the camshaft in the direction of engine rotation, which is clockwise. Otherwise just work with the "A" side of your timing gear.. it has 2,4,6 and 8 degree advance settings. I have to skip a tooth and work with the retard side of the dist gear every once in a while, but it's not all that common. I went over and took a peek at Charlie Evan's cam table on the chicagolandbuick.org site... Looks like cam should be .050 open at 1* before TDC, and close at 47* after bdc.. Specs are 228*/247* at .050 duration I/E JW
Mike, Do you have the dial indicator set up on the first or second lifter on the drivers side? The second is the intake. I know it's a simple thing but I almost set it up on the exhaust on my first try. Len
Len, It is set up on the second, and I keep getting the same readings as I posted above. Looks like the head comes off... Lucky for me I cound the parts locally... Dam I dont want mess with the headers.. Michael Does anyone know the cure for IWS!!! (Irrate Wife Syndrome). Besides selling the car, man she is not a happy camperou: .
Put the piston stop back in and verify that the wheel stops on the same number going each direction this will ensure your degree wheel didn't slip out of position. And it's free.
Well I just cant get it, last time around was 0 and 145, Guess the head comes off!!! But on the good side, got the wife off my back. She does not understand cars very well soooo.... Put her under the car turning the flexplate... Perfect for a pregnant lady (8 months). But she's not bugging me about it anymore...:grin:
Mike I've got the day off tomorrow, if your not working and are willing to keep the head on another day I can come down and help you out. PM me directions from 805 south
Len, Head is off, but cant find a way to get the center bolt out of the Kenne Bell headers. So. its stuck in the car, Ill put it back on and send you directions...
For any of the rest of you out there with this cam, the numbers that Jim has above matched the cam that Mike has within .5 to 1 degree, and probably the slop was us not the cam. Additionally Mikes readings matched the cam card numbers when installed straight up, no advance required. I believe we got a 112.5 degree ICL.
Do what I did, I gave my daughter the smallest wrench that would fit and had her reach it with her small hands/wrists :grin: Worked like a charm! Cheers
Almost togeather... Had to tear it down Sat. cause I forgot the erl slinger. Now just putting the accessories/rad/new erl/water/volt gauges in... Should run today, hopefully it will be at Le masa on thurs...
