Just an update... Engine is out, on a stand. Oil pan had a pile of old plastic chunks stuck to the bottom and the pick up screen! from original nylon timing gear I assume? Im sure that reduced my oil flow. The motor actually looked very clean and didnt see any metal or gunk. Ran a big magnet thru the debris pile in the pan and nothing stuck. Flipped the motor over and flushed it with some clean oil letting it run through and drain out, then poured a gallon of some mineral spirits based cleaner that my friend brought me from the dodge service center he works at, i think its used to clean out trans parts or something. Let it all dry and brake cleaned it all. Poured fresh oil all over it again to keep it wet and rinse off anything extra. It looks clean. Tapped the front cam bearing out and ready to tap in the new TA dual groove. Also picked up a new rear main seal. Read that a ford 460 rubber seal is a direct replacement. Any advice for removing and installing the seal? Also tips on getting that cam bearing in nice and straight? I dont have an installer tool. Next im going to disassemble the oil pump and clean it. Intall my pressure reg and booster plate. Stock spring with the regulator right? Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Matt just installed a Crower Level 3 cam using the "0" degree or straight up marks on a 3 keyway timing gear set. The Crower cam card states that the cam has 4 degrees advance built in and the .050" timing specs on the card indicate that the intake lobe center should be 108 degrees ATDC. The degree wheel was zeroed using a piston stop since the heads where on. The .050" readings showed the intake lobe center at 113* ATDC which puts the cam 1* retarded. The crankshaft timing gear was moved to the 4 degree advanced position and now the readings indicate that the intake lobe center was at 109* or 3* advanced. Matt called it close enough and the job was done. Consider this example next time someone says that a cam has some advance built-in and to just install it straight up on the timing gears. Paul
Great info Paul, thank you. Seems Crower's cams aren't as close to specs as they advertise, much like the rest of the aftermarket cams. Best to use that wheel then when installing an aftermarket cam! Gary
Thanks for posting that Paul. When I first attempted to degree it i noticed how off my numbers were even though the card says 4* advance ground into the cam. Thought i was doing it wrong and the 4* spec confused me so I contacted Paul to help ne out again. Sure enough I had to advance it 4* to be within 1. If I could have afforded it I would've got a 9 keyway but this will have to do. Just need to drop the intake on, slip the new vonverter in, and motors going back in. Installed my oil pump booster plate and adjustable regulator with stock spring. I also marked the pushrods with a paint pen to make sure they spin. Since these rockers dont spit oil out of the top is it ok to run it with the valve covers off to watch? How messy would it get Matt Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Common theme with the Crower Cams, mine (lvl 4 #50259) was out 1* as well when I installed and checked with my degree wheel. Always good advice to check and know, instead of assuming!
The engine can be spun by the starter to see if the lifters spin. No need to spray any oil. Keep in mind it would wipe off cam lube if done too long. Already mentioned to spin the cam by hand. I would not continue to assemble if it had a previous issue and wasn't verified with the second cam.
Should the pushrods spin if I spun it by hand at the crank? Or does it need to be starter speed. Its still on a stand with the intake and valve covers off Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
So we assume it's the cam thats off. NOT the crank, crank sprocket, cam sprocket? FYI 1* will make zero difference. Always degree a cam install and use the monster Moroso wheel. The little 9" wheels are useless and will have more error than 1* in it.
Makes sense, especially when you consider different parts made from different manufacturers mixed up together. Getting parts made by the same manufacturer designed to work together would probably alleviate much of the variance, though nothing is ever going to be spot-on perfect no matter what you use. ...which is why everything is designed to work within a spectrum of tolerance and why wider cam specs are more forgiving than tighter specs--especially when they're made by the same manufacturer, which have their own set of variances when used with each other. OEM replacement parts fall under this category, and it seems pretty much anything outside of this (within reason) needs to be meticulously measured to ensure proper valvetrain geometry alignment. Mix and match variances from different manufacturers, and you can end up with a mess that needs to be ironed out with precise measuring devices. I'll need to post reams of pictures, videos, dyno results, timeslips, and exceed a critical mass of no less than 1,000 units to represent my findings though, otherwise this is all just a 'theory'. Gary
If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts. Albert Einstein Hope your not mad at me. If so Sorry.
My comment was in regards to the lifter spinning only. For sake of the following, I'm not one bit concerned about the pushrod...at that particular point; If the lifter isn't spinning on a cam of this type, failure is soon to follow. Watching the pushrod can be a helpful indicator of the above with regards to a running engine, to avoid the necessity of tearing it down further. You can verify the lifter spinning long before you button things up.
Brake clean will dry out all your bearings and cause a failure on startup. Definitely need to prelube this one while turning engine by hand for several revolutions. Do not crank it without prelube. Just my opinion.
I tried my best to keep the brake clean away from any bearings. I used it more for oiled surfaces, pan, timing cover, valley and what not. I poured about a gallon of fresh oil through the crank with the cam out and rotated slowly to flush out what I could. Wiped everthing down, blew it out with air and oiled again. I didnt let it get dry. Basically just trying to flush through it all. Surprisingly it was very clean. There really wasnt much of anything i could see in the oil from start to finish. It was the best i could do, its what I gotta work with. Just hoping for the best now. Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Yes I packed with petroleum jelly and primed for a few sec and seen oil come out of the rocker shafts Sent from my LG-H811 using Tapatalk
Why would anyone be mad? Some misconceptions about the definitions of words and how they're used in science (relevant to any scientific quotes regarding facts, theories, evidence, and hypotheses) "A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world that is acquired through the scientific method and repeatedly tested and confirmed through observation and experimentation." More can be found here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_theory and here: http://oregonstate.edu/instruction/bb317/scientifictheories.html and elsewhere. Gary
Like here. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolerance_analysis Great info guys. I really appreciate the conversation.
Do not crank the engine over with the starter unless you are ready to start it. It is doubtful the starting rpm would spin the lifters much and for sure you will wipe off the cam lube which will kill the cam when you do start it. Even cranking the engine over by hand starts to wipe it off. Of course as you install the lifters you should check they rotate by hand in each bore without any pushrods installed. Any kind of binding/resistance needs to be checked. After I'm all done checking and adjusting preload I pull all the rockers, slide the pushrods up, and pull all the lifters out one at a time and re-apply cam lube(the gooey stuff) onto the cam with a small brush and the lifter face. Re-assemble and button it up. Prelube the oil pump, make sure the distributer is in the right alignment to start and go for it. No screwing around cranking it over to "check" things. I just put a dab of white paint near the top of the pushrod at the rocker arm. Once running you'll see it in a flash if it is not rotating. Just about any kind of movement is good. If the pushrod is rotating then the lifter is rotating. Once you check one side install the valve cover and then check the other side. No idling during cam break-in!
